#75: Why I left a spiritual cult
Last September I made a podcast called “why I left my spiritual community.” After I shared it, the leader told me that I would be hearing from her lawyer if I did not take the podcast down.
Now I have realized that I was in what I believe to be a spiritual cult. I also have realized, after receiving a cease & desist letter because of my recent Instagram posts, that I never did anything wrong by making my initial podcast.
So in this episode, I tell you what’s happening now with my journey, and I also put that episode I made last fall, back up so you can listen to the whole thing.
Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music, Stitcher, Overcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Episode Links:
Full Episode Transcript:
Demetra (00:00:09):
Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Demetra Gray Show. The podcast is not back, at least not yet, not right now. Jordan and I have talked about recording some episodes together later this year just for fun. However, the reason that I am coming on today and making a new episode is because if you have been following my social media, you’ll have seen that on Instagram. In the beginning of August, I started sharing about my experience being in a cult. I believe that I was in a cult for two years from August of 2020 to August of 2022. And when I left the cult, I made a podcast that you may remember, depending on how long you’ve been following me and if you listen to it or not. And that podcast I put out in the end of September, actually, I wonder it might be even a year to the day, who knows?
(00:01:31):
Sometime end of September of 2022. And in that podcast it was titled it was number 49. If you scroll back, you’ll see it has disappeared. I did remove it and I’ll tell you why in a moment, but I made this podcast, it was titled Why I Left My Spiritual Community. And the reason that I made this podcast at the time was because I had been working with a woman for two years, and at the time, I considered her to be my teacher. And I went and met her in person in August of 2022. And when I met her, based on the things that I witnessed and experienced, I did not like her at all. And I believe that she is the opposite of the things that she teaches, and that was my personal experience and what I personally concluded from witnessing her behavior in her life when I left, this was kind of earth shattering for me because I had really taken on these beliefs of the cult.
(00:03:01):
I’ve been learning a lot about cults, and I didn’t realize how my whole world had gotten so wrapped up in these worldviews and these beliefs and getting to experience what the result of these beliefs looked like in this person’s life made me realize, made me just strongly start to question a lot of these beliefs. And what I found when I started to question them was that the whole thing kind of crumbled down. And the reason I made this podcast that I’m going to share with you back then was because I felt a responsibility to communicate to the people that follow me, that I was no longer affiliated with that world at the time. You’ll hear me say in the following podcast that I would never call it a cult. I was never going to call it a cult. I know a lot of other people have called it a cult, and I was still wrapped up.
(00:04:01):
I had left. But what I have learned is that it takes a really long time to extricate yourself from a cult, and people tend to go back again and again, and it’s hard for them to get out. I did not go back, but it did take me a really long time. I can’t remember the first month that I, because at first I was like, it’s not a cult. I was still really operating from this place of I’m a hundred percent responsible for my own experience, and I create everything that happens to me and I create my whole life and all these beliefs that I’ve been unwinding on my Instagram.
(00:04:44):
So I wasn’t quite even there yet. When I made this podcast, I was still very in it. You’ll hear me say in this podcast that I love this woman so much and I have so much love for her. That’s not true now. So yeah, basically anything positive that I say in the upcoming podcast are likely things that I no longer believe. But when I recorded this podcast, it wasn’t to criticize this woman, even though I believe that that would be a perfectly okay thing for me to do. At the time, I felt responsible that I brought so many people into the cult and I had believed the cult so deeply. And if you had followed me, you will remember me telling people all the time about my teacher and how amazing I thought she was and my experience in there. And I convinced a lot of people to join and some people that I convinced to join are very, very deep in the cult and they’re still in there.
(00:06:02):
And so when I left, one of the things that’s always been really important to me about my work is truth and my honesty, which funnily enough, is what originally drew me to the cult in the first place because it was calling itself this place of truth. And truth is deeply important to me. And when I made this podcast, I wanted to tell people the truth. I wanted to tell people what I experienced and what was going on with me and why I had separated. And I also wanted to let them know I feel like something that I valued a lot is that people that follow me have seemed to always really trust me. They trust what I say, they believe me. And I think that’s because I value this honesty. And I’ve been really honest with people. And when I left while my whole world was crumbling, I was so destabilized and so exhausted and confused and just lost.
(00:07:14):
I cried for weeks and weeks and weeks on end, and I just couldn’t believe the more that I saw all of these beliefs and all these different things, I just couldn’t believe I had gotten so sucked into something. The way that it felt to me was like, it’s funny, I made this podcast episode a while back on shitting all over religion, and I don’t agree with that now, but I also have really come to understand, it was just funny. I basically was in a religion and didn’t even know it. I was in this religion shitting on other religions being like, but this is the real way, just it’s just really wild, wilds me the whole thing. So anyway, I wanted to be honest with people and tell them, I know a lot of people joined because of my vouching for this, and I can no longer vouch for this based on what I experienced.
(00:08:28):
And I want you to know that all of the great things that I said about this while I was in it, I no longer believe. And based on the experience that I’ve had since then and since leaving, I believe that I was in a cult. And I believe that it did a lot of harm to me. And I want you to know that. And I felt like I wasn’t allowed to say any of this. I had signed a contract from the woman, from the teacher teacher that it was like an anti-defamation clause, and I can read to you exactly what I signed.
(00:09:18):
Where is it? So in the contract, it says, you agree to not disparage me. My body of work or my business orally or in writing. This includes a promise not to publicly demonize, defame or do anything that would do harm to me, my family, my business, my team, or any of my clients. And I knew I had signed a contract like that. And I remember signing the contract, and I remember I had actually not… The contracts weren’t introduced until over a year of me actually being in the cult. And so I knew that I’d signed this, and I didn’t know how much validity it held, and I was also really exhausted. And so I put this podcast out, and you’ll hear in the podcast if you listen to it, and I will put the transcript of it up on my website and I’ll link where that is in the show notes because I don’t blame you if you don’t want to listen to the whole podcast.
(00:10:24):
To me, my experience of re-listening back to this podcast was that I was so vague that basically the podcast says nothing, but this is actually really important. I was so careful, and the message that I wanted to get out in the podcast, which I did get out, was that I left. I met this woman in person. I did not like what I saw. And I think that was basically it. That was what I said, and I wanted to share a lot more. But because of this defamation clause, and you’ll hear in the contract, I’m so afraid of being sued every few sentences it feels like I’m like, oh, I don’t want to get sued. I’m not trying to defame anyone. I was so afraid at that time of having to spend more energy fighting this person and getting into this argument, and I was just like, I just cannot deal with any of this.
(00:11:24):
So I tried to make this podcast that was really vague, and I put that out. And when I put this podcast out, this woman had what I would consider to be a kind of extreme response to this very innocuous podcast. She made a lot of Instagram posts about me. She, I don’t know, made videos. She held calls for everybody in her membership, and this is just what I understand from other people, but she held community calls. I believe there were two hundreds of people in this community. She shared our text messages. I guess they were supposed to show something.
(00:12:17):
She got to control the narrative of what happened. And I let that happen. I just felt like everyone who’s probably listened to about 10 times more people, listened to the podcast than ever would’ve listened to the podcast because of the way that she was so upset about it. And she sent me an email soon after that saying that if we didn’t agree to do a call with her, that we would be hearing from her lawyer. And I knew that that was probably true based on hearing her other experiences with being in lawsuits. I didn’t feel like getting into all of that. And I ended up agreeing to do the call. And the way that I see this call now was that it was my sort of last attempt at believing that I was dealing with somebody that I would consider rational and able to have a conversation where both sides take responsibility for things and really talk things out.
(00:13:46):
And that was not my experience of that meeting. And so finally my husband said something along the lines of, this is getting us nowhere. What is it that you want? And we ultimately decided that she wanted me to take the podcast down, and I agreed I would take the podcast down. Mostly I just wanted the entire thing to be over. So that was what I did. I took the podcast down and later on I ended up actually being really glad that I took the podcast down because the more that I healed, the more I felt like, wow, that podcast was so forgiving and just so gentle and was giving so much benefit of the doubt. And all of that being said, that leads us to today. So in the beginning of August, I started making posts on my Instagram talking about my experience of being in a cult and what that was like. On August 31st, I received a cease and desist letter from the lawyer of this woman who I could publicly name legally, but I don’t know that I want to because yeah, I just dunno that I want to yet.
(00:15:18):
And the cease and desist letter was really interesting to me for a lot of reasons. But the main one that I want to talk about is that. So to back up a bit, they sent the cease and desist letter, the lawyer did. And then when I kept posting posts on my Instagram, the lawyer sent two more emails in a row to both me and Jordan. And in my opinion, they were pretty aggressive. And so because of all this, I decided I would get my own lawyers and I was like, you know what? If this is what it’s come to and we’re going to talk to lawyers, I’m really curious actually to talk to a lawyer because I would love to know
(00:16:08):
What my rights are and what is legal. You’ll hear in the podcast that I was really, really afraid of dealing with any of the legal stuff. And I wasn’t afraid that the law was going to, I didn’t think I had done anything wrong, but I was curious about my contract and how much weight that contract really held. And what I discovered when I talked to lawyers is that there is a variety of things that protect people’s right to free speech. And the most important thing is that there’s actually a law that prevents businesses from having people sign contracts that make them not allowed to share their negative experiences of a business. And so this clause in her contract is actually unenforceable because it’s illegal. It’s against the law. The law is called, I believe it’s called, let me look, so I don’t say anything incorrect.
(00:17:14):
It’s called the Consumer Review Fairness Act. It was passed in 2016 and it makes it so businesses can’t prevent clients from sharing negative experiences with their business. So this clause, and it turns out I’ve actually discovered that a lot of more high-end coaches that in my opinion are a little bit culty, they put these clauses in their contracts and people don’t know that they actually don’t hold any weight. So finding that out was really interesting for me because that was the thing I was so hesitant about because I know that I’m telling the truth and I know that I’m sharing my opinions and that those things are allowed. And I wasn’t sure if what role the contract played in that. So to find out that the clause in the contract is unenforceable, I was really good to know. So I’m sharing that with you too in case you didn’t know.
(00:18:28):
And in case you’ve signed a contract that’s similar, I would look at it more closely and maybe look up that law and see where you fall. So in addition to that, the reason that the cease and deist letter was so interesting, I mean there were a lot of pieces about it that I thought were very interesting, but one piece really caught my eye, and I will quote it to you, one of the things it said, it referenced this podcast that I made this podcast that was seemed to be such a big deal a year ago. It said, during Demetra’s stay, she witnessed a private personal family event that Demetra subsequently disclosed in a public podcast dedicated to the disparagement of my clients for Demetra’s own business gain.
(00:19:25):
And when I read that, I was like, huh, did I do that? I must’ve done that for, this is a pretty big sentence into my experience last fall was that everyone around me was kind of like, what an immature thing you’ve done making this podcast. And even Jordan, Jordan was really supportive and absolutely believed everything that I was saying and agreed, but he was kind of, at the time, I wish you wouldn’t have to be someone who speaks out against things. We just sort of just go about our lives and not have any drama. And so it just felt like everybody, a lot of my clients were really disappointed in me, people who were in the cult too. I had clients that were in the cult at the same time. And it was a big thing. And because of the way that so many people and the way that the leader of the cult acted in response to this podcast, I started to believe along with everybody else, I was kind of like, yeah, maybe it wasn’t a mature thing to do.
(00:20:54):
Maybe it was messy. And it was young, I think is what the cult leader called it. Maybe I shouldn’t have done this really terrible thing that I did. And probably in certain episodes after that, you might’ve heard me reference it in certain ways and kind of say, almost apologize for this quality of mine that I have that is speaking out against things and making a public statement like that. And there was this narrative that I should have done it in a more mature way. I should have had conversations, but based on what I saw, I actually think that now that that was the only way to do it. And I’m actually really proud that I did it. And I’m proud that I speak out and I speak up and I say things and I am proud that I say the truth. And when I read this in the Cease and desist letter and I was like, I had just started believing that I must have done something wrong, and then the cult leader had said so many times that a big factor, the thing that I saw when I was there with her this big family event was that I saw her fight with her husband and I couldn’t be with her human.
(00:22:36):
And that was why I had created this whole big story and projection and left. And I just let everybody believe that at the time I was like, I’m okay with hundreds of people misunderstanding me and believing this narrative about me. And I just felt like I need to do what feels right for me and take care of myself. So what you’ll hear in this podcast that I’m about to share with you, this intro ended up being a lot longer than I imagined it would be, is that I’d never actually referenced this event at all. I didn’t know at the time if I was allowed to say anything to me. It also wasn’t really about the details at the time. The main message that I wanted to give was, I know I don’t agree with who this person is and I don’t support it. I don’t support them, their business. I can’t vouch for this anymore.
(00:23:45):
But it is true that one of the things that I witnessed when I was there was I wouldn’t call it a fight, I would call it this woman screaming at her husband. I witnessed her scream at her husband in a way that I consider extremely abusive. And I have since heard from other women that they have also had what they consider abusive experiences with this woman. I didn’t know that part at the time, but I do now. And that experience to me of witnessing this behavior was just kind of the cherry on top for me of everything else that I witnessed when I was there. And everything that I witnessed makes me believe that the things that this woman teaches are the opposite of who she actually is based on everything I’ve seen. In my opinion, she does not live what she teaches, and in my opinion, her public persona seems to be the opposite of what she is.
(00:25:06):
So that’s what I have to say about that. But I didn’t actually say that in the podcast. And what was really interesting to me was that when I saw this in the cease and desist letter, I was like, yeah, I must have referenced her screaming at him. I must have talked about this, or I must have said really terrible things about them. And when I went to listen to my podcast again, I then ended up ordering the transcript because I was like, where is it? Where is this part where I say all these things? And it was just, I’ve had a lot of other experiences over the last couple months of realizing places where I was gaslit and I had no real understanding of what gaslighting even was before. I also used to think that people who talked about cults were kind of ridiculous, and people that talked about narcissists were ridiculous.
(00:26:20):
I thought all these things that I am learning more about now were ridiculous. And I actually felt superior to them when I was in the cult. I just felt like these people are babies who don’t know how to take responsibility for their lives and what they create in their lives. And so it was a big wake up call to realize that that was not true. And so when I went through the transcript, I was like, oh, I never said anything. This podcast was actually so tame. And I actually found it annoying to listen to and even to read the transcript because it was like I didn’t really say anything at all. And I kept waiting for me to say something, and then I just didn’t say anything. And it was a really good example for me of how easy it is to be gaslit into something because of her narrative of what had happened and because of the reaction she had had to it and the way she held these calls about me.
(00:27:37):
And it was this big deal. And I had treated it a big deal at the time. I held a call with all my clients so that they could share all their feelings about basically, some people were really supportive to me, but some people were also really disappointed and angry at me. And I just let everyone have their feelings. And I was like, maybe you’re right. Maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know. And just kind of gave everyone space to feel what they felt. And what I realized when I looked back at this podcast was like, oh, even that, it’s just such an example of how easy it is to start believing this narrative that’s told over and over again and to believe. I really, I didn’t even realize it, but I still had a part of me that was like, maybe it is me. Maybe I did an immature thing.
(00:28:46):
Maybe I should have done this differently. And I realized when looking through this transcript, like, oh, I didn’t do anything wrong. I was not wrong to make this podcast. First of all, I barely said anything in it. I was actually really kind in it in a lot of parts and way more kind than I would ever be today. And I do not think based on my experience of this woman and how she handles things, that there was any other way to do it differently. I would not have done it differently. I know what I saw and what I experienced. And I think that it is absolutely something that is worth speaking out against.
(00:29:54):
The reason that I made this podcast, the reason I made the podcast that I made last year was because based upon what I saw, I felt like I needed to speak out and tell the truth and say what my experience really was like. And I still feel that way now. And the reason I’m putting this podcast back up is to show you what it actually said, but mostly because I never should have had to take it down. I never should have taken it down in the first place. And it feels like I get to go back and right that for myself that I didn’t do anything wrong in the first place. And I’m allowed to share my opinion and my experience, and I’m really proud of who I am, and I’m proud that I am someone who will speak out when there’s something that I feel is wrong and that people should know. And that’s what I feel I’m doing here, and that’s what I’ve always done, and that is what I’ll continue to do.
(00:31:27):
It’s been a really hard experience for me being in a cult. It’s not something I would recommend to anyone. The sort of, what do they call it? Not decontamination, but I dunno, there’s some word for it. The taking it all apart and really seeing why I got caught up, not just in this cult, but a lot of cult-like beliefs in my life has been very sobering for me and also really beautiful. Am not grateful for how it happens, but I am grateful that I get to do this really deep kind of looking at all of these patterns and seeing this kind of language and the way that certain things are taught and held in our society. And that’s a bigger exploration for me. I’m in a really good place now. I wouldn’t say that I am entirely healed from it. I think it takes a long time to heal from really being deeply involved in a cult.
(00:32:47):
But I am in a really, really good place, and it’s from that place that I want to share this with you and take everything you hear in this upcoming podcast. At the beginning, I talked for a while about the trip Jordan and I just took, or something, I don’t get into it for a bit. So you can skip through that if you want to, and just know when you listen to it that when I listened to it, I can hear all the places that I was still really enmeshed in this cult. And I was still under a lot of cult-like beliefs. And so a lot of the things I say in this I might no longer agree with, but it is certainly even more so my opinion now that I had a really terrible experience working with this woman. And that is what I want to share with you. So without further ado, here is my podcast from last year. Enjoy.
(00:34:10):
Hello, hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Dimitra Gray Show. Oh my gosh, I’m so thrilled to tell you that we are back home. We just got home yesterday if you hadn’t seen. And Jordan and I were away for the past month and very last minute. We just took off and went to the States. We spent a month with my family, we got Covid. Wow. There was just so much that happened. And for me, it was really exactly what I needed. And you may have heard me talk about how this theme I’ve been on for the past few weeks is, I guess really the past month or so is when we open to life, where can we feel the possibility of what’s there and be with life as it is and open to it as it is and trust it and trust what it’s showing us? And originally you’ll hear, I still have a little bit of this covid cough, so I’ll try to keep it to a minimum, but where do I even begin this trip? Initially, the reason for this trip was really sad. Someone in my family received a diagnosis that was pretty intense, and the nature of it and the nature of how close this person is to me
(00:36:21):
Really just made me feel like I just wanted to go home immediately. I just wanted to be with everyone. I hadn’t been home in two and a half years and we just went and we decided to go for a month because we had originally already had this trip planned to Washington the 18th through the 23rd of September. So we were like, okay, it was August 28th or something, and it was like, okay, we’ll just go to Pennsylvania and then if everything’s all right, we’ll take the planned trip, fly across the country with everyone, be in Washington. Originally they were coming to Washington to visit me. They couldn’t cross the border, but now in a week apparently everyone will be able to cross the border. So there’s all these moving pieces, but me leaving here, I was so sad and crying so much, and it was so raw and so intense, and it was so spur of the moment. I think it was a Friday, and we ended up leaving 6:00 AM on Sunday, and we really just dropped our whole lives for a month. And then we got to Pennsylvania and we got covid. So then that derailed a lot of things and it was a huge teaching for me. It almost felt like, I don’t want to call it a challenge, but
(00:38:05):
A new game, almost like a new, I knew I was on this theme of grief and being with what is and opening to life. And life gave me the opportunity to really live that out. And I did. And this trip for me ended up being the biggest healing and the biggest gift that I could have imagined and exactly what I needed right now. And I couldn’t have really imagined. I mean, I could have imagined, but I wouldn’t have imagined how it would pan out a month ago when I was just crying so much to and getting ready to go. But the covid and the diagnosis and all this stuff, when I feel into the last month, those things don’t even register, which is wild because Covid was a solid two weeks of our trip. It was like we were in bed. I was in bed for a solid week, Jordan, even longer. It was a lot. It was really a lot. But when I feel into the whole last month, somehow Covid just feels like barely even there. It just feels like this side little thing. And in the way that I feel toward things, it feels like Covid
(00:39:59):
Was for us in some way. And the whole trip, the way that everything went, the amount of time I got to spend with my family, that Jordan got to spend with my family, oh, it was just really the best, the whole thing, honestly. And we’re already planning another trip back probably in February to the east Coast. And yeah, I feel just at times it was very, very challenging. I keep having to remind myself of this because I had to cancel a lot of things. I had to move things around. I was like really? I wouldn’t even call it stress, but I mean I guess stressed, but just really holding a lot of things and handling a lot of things at one time or in hotel rooms and sick and in a different place, all of the things. But when I sit here now and I feel into the past month, my heart is just so full and I feel just so nourished and it’s hard to believe how stressful it was because it was just so beautiful.
(00:41:26):
And it’s not like a bypass you like, oh, I just stay positive whole time. I had had moments where I was crying and just like, this is a lot and I’m really maxed out. And that was a solid few weeks, I think it was a big part of it. But when I feel into it now, I’m just like, I just feel so nourished and I’m so grateful and I’m so glad we got to go and I’m just full, I’m happy and I just feel really full up. So it’s been a long time coming, all of that. And oh, I was going to have a special episode this week, but I think it’ll be maybe next or the week. We have to kind of see. It’s a surprise, but it’s not this one, but it’s somebody in my life who’s going to come on the podcast maybe.
(00:42:37):
So that’s all I’ll say. Anyway. So at the same time as all of this, you have probably maybe heard me mention that I am also moving through a really big transition, and I’ve been sitting with this for a month and a half now, and honestly debating whether I should share this or not, how much to share, what to say, does it really matter? Do I really need to share it? Sorting through all these different feelings and all these different questions and I’ve decided to share it hopefully in the cleanest way possible that I can share it.
(00:43:42):
And the reason that I’m sharing it, and I want to be really clear about this because I imagine with the nature of it all that a lot of different people will listen to it. And some people will listen with the intention of tearing things apart or criticizing or I don’t know, maybe not, but different pieces. And I’m okay with that. I’ve really sat with it. I really have my main reason, there’s multiple reasons for me kind of holding back, but the main one is that I don’t want to stir up drama and I don’t want to talk about anyone behind their back. And I don’t want to. There’s just a lot of different pieces for me of things that I don’t want to do. And I’m going to try my best to not do that. And at the same time, I’m kind of aware that in some way that might happen. But for me, what I always come back to in myself, when I think about the past, really the past 10 years of my life, and me sharing myself online, no matter what different iteration me in public in a business has taken, and there have been many,
Demetra (00:45:24):
I
Demetra (00:45:27):
Have this promise with myself ultimately, and the energy that I feel and I feel that
Demetra (00:45:50):
I
Demetra (00:45:52):
Can’t not share with you honestly where I’m at, and this promise that I have with myself is basically whatever is happening, I don’t hide that. And me expressing myself and my freedom of expression has always been me sharing where I’m at often in real time and being very honest with everyone
Demetra (00:46:27):
Who
Demetra (00:46:28):
Follows me, whether they followed me for no time at all or for a really long time. And if you followed me for a really long time, I hope ultimately what’s always been most important to me is telling the truth and being able to express myself in my process in real time. And I say all that to say that where I’ve been at the last month and a half is I feel pretty, there’s a lot of other things I want to share in my life and my work and all this stuff and my businesses transitioning and we’re going to build a new website and all these different things, but I feel like I keep being, maybe I can just sort of bypass this part. I don’t have to name it and I can just move on, but I can’t actually do that. I’ve kind of tried, but I can’t. There’s this way that I have expressed myself and related and the truth that I speak. I can’t just skip over something that wants to come out and I can’t just skip over this major part of my life and major part of what I’m going through. And I think some people feel different ways about that. Not everyone is that way. Not everyone needs to be that way. But for me and how I work and how I’ve always lived,
(00:48:43):
I’ve tried to not share anything. And it just feels like all that wants to come out is me sharing about this. And so my hope is that I can share where I’m at, not with the intention of talking about somebody else or anything else, but with the intention of just being able to express where I’m actually at on my own podcast. Just like being able to share with you all what’s going on for me and what I’m moving through. And some people would also say that that is not the proper way to do business or do a thing. And I dunno, I don’t care when I choose to for the time that I choose to share my life, you can trust that I’m sharing with you every part of my life really. And sometimes I admire the people that kind of have things separated, but honestly, I just don’t think that will ever be me. It feels very, what’s the word, anathema, is that how you say that word? Anathema. It feels IC anyway. It feels like contrary to who I am and who I’ve always been to just keep something hidden. So with all that being said,
(00:51:06):
I want to talk today about this transition I’ve been moving through, which is leaving this community, this spiritual community, my teacher, this whole world that I’ve been a part of for the past two years and what that’s been like for me because it’s been huge and I’m still very in it. I’ve waited so that it wasn’t quite so raw. I moved through a lot, but I’m still definitely in this process. And I am telling you this because I think it’s important to name that I am not that separated from the whole thing yet. And I’ve had things like this happen before I left the whole yoga world when I was whatever, 23 or something, and I did it with a massive bang. I just blew everything up and it was just a huge explosion. And I know now that looking back now at my 23, I see some things differently, but the core thing I will say has not changed. Anyway. I want to talk about this process and what it’s been like for me and what I’m unraveling and the importance. And I think a piece I’ll start with is there’s a huge importance
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In leaving and finishing your work with a person
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Or a community and not getting stuck in something that’s no longer true just because you’re a part of this thing that you then feel like you can’t leave or because it’s become so much of your identity in some way that you can’t move on past it or from it. And there’s so many layers, it’s like, I don’t even really know where to start, but anyone who has left my, and this feels like a dumb thing to say because it’s like, why would anyone tell people to leave? I’m kind of like, oh, if I say this that are all my clients going to leave, they’re all going to be like, oh, I didn’t realize I should be done with you. And then they’ll go, but actually I do want that to occur if it’s the true thing to happen. And I really feel that anyone who has left working with me, who has finished a year or more with me who has said like, I’m done, I am thrilled genuinely through and through, not just saying I’m thrilled, not just feeling like I should feel thrilled, but genuinely that feels great.
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When you work with me, I want you to reach a point where you feel like, you know what? I got what I needed. That was what was right for me for this period of time. I’m done now. I’m moving on. And whether you leave with a lot of love or a lot of animosity, doesn’t matter to me. And I don’t need to chase you to find out why you’re leaving or why you don’t like me or why you’re mad at me or what you had a problem with in my work or what I said or me as a human. It just really doesn’t matter to me. And there have been quite a few people who have left my work, a couple who I’m like, I think that person, they were finished with their time with me anyway, but then unfriended me left, whatever. And that’s okay with me when there is one person specifically who I can think of who that happened with sort of recently, and I’m like, oh my God, I’m thrilled for them. I hope that they got what they needed and whatever they think about me or what I think or how I work is okay. I don’t need to find out what it is or I don’t need to know why they unfriended me. It just doesn’t matter.
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And I have a lot of love for the people that I work with. And also I think this distinction is really important and that I am also not friends with the people that I work with, with my clients, with my students. I think that in the world I was in, I felt a lot of enmeshment happening. And that’s a pattern I have in my family. So I certainly participated in it, but as the teacher, for me, as the coach, as the one guiding, as the one in the leader role, I try to be really careful to make sure that that does not happen in my work at all. So as this relates to my work,
Demetra (00:57:36):
I
Demetra (00:57:42):
Just want to say that I think it’s really important to always know when we’re done with something, when something is no longer for us and to be able to move on. And the thing is that, and I think something else that’s really important to know, and this includes me, is that whenever we’re working with someone, regardless of what their teachings are and how powerful their teachings are and who they are, all of the teachings, all of their work, everything is going to be filtered through their wounds as a human. It’s going to be filtered through their humanity and stuff they can’t see, and it’s going to be altered in some way, buy stuff they can’t see. And that certainly, I am sure that happens in my work. And I know that that happened in my work because when I look back on my own stuff from a year or two years, three years ago, I’m like, oh, this is what I can see now that I couldn’t see then. And this is part of the work of being someone who guides others, is hoping that when someone meets me at a particular moment in time and chooses to work with me in a particular moment, they’re called to something that I have in that moment and they need something I have in that moment. And even if certain things that I believe or say end up shifting as they will,
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That’s okay because I have full trust in my clients to discern what works for them, what doesn’t, and when they are done working with me to drop certain things that don’t resonate. And also to be able to see there’s a really fine line here because when I’m working with someone, I’m not open to their opinions about how I’m doing it, right? If someone is choosing to work with me,
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They’re saying, yes, I’m on board for your site for you holding me for what you think, and I’m not really interested in convoluting myself or censoring myself or whatever to make someone feel better or whatever. If you’re choosing to work with me or choosing to work with me. And at the same time, I hope that you always know that my stuff is also filtered through my humanity and my own wounds. You can think of all my stuff that I’ve been talking about with my food journey, for example. I am still on this journey. And so stuff that I may have said or had to say about food a year and a half ago, probably the essence of it was still true. I was speaking to a true thing. And if I go back now and comb through it all, there might be some things that I’m like, oh, I see this so differently now. And someone who’s working with me might have that experience. And I think that that’s an important piece for anyone who is working with me or finished working. I think we always hold, and I’ve really tried to always do this, hold the
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To realize and to be able to see where my teachers can’t see to be like this is a thing that this person hasn’t mastered. And to
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Be aware of the areas where a teacher or a coach’s guidance might be being filtered through their own stuff. And to choose to not listen if that is a thing that doesn’t work. And I hope that everyone who works with me will always choose to do that same thing because I have a lot of gifts, I have a lot of sight, and I have my own human process and human stuff. And I think for a lot of pieces, you should all know a lot of what that is because I shared a lot. But there are, so what I want to say with all of that is there are these places for everyone when working with anyone where what they teach is going to be filtered and altered by who they are and how they show up in the world. And it’s not always possible with the online world to know what that actually looks like in real life. And I don’t know, I think maybe no matter how much we try, it’s really hard to know what it looks like played out in someone’s life. And maybe I’m wrong. I’m leading a retreat in what in May, maybe I’m wrong. And maybe to me, I feel like I’m so open and share everything. So honestly that I don’t think anyone who follows me would be at all surprised by who I am. Even in my absolute worst moments,
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I think you’d be like, yes, maybe you’d think I was a bit more whiny than you might expect. But that is what I think. I really think that, I mean, I guess really this isn’t a thing I get to say, but I really think anyone who met me would not be shocked at all by anything that I could say or do. And it’s hard to know without really feeling someone in person and really seeing someone’s actual life, who they are all the way. So for me, like I said, this is going to be kind of, there’s no, I kind of thought about writing down certain notes before I did this to just be like, okay, these are the pieces I want to name and touch on so it’s not so all over the place. But I want to just talk honestly, and maybe this isn’t so much, it’s not really meant to be a teaching episode. It’s really just like, this is what I’m sorting through and where I’m at in real time. So I was in this community for two years. I completed my two years just about maybe I left a week before my two years was up, and I take that very seriously. When I commit to something I’m committing to myself ultimately. And
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I was committed to the truth of the commitment that I felt like the truth of me signing up. And I do believe it was absolutely true, and it felt like my soul was so called to this particular person at this particular time. And a lot of pieces from the past two years were the most beautiful, loving life-changing things. This person really helped me, really held me as I moved from, made it into mother, this girl into woman, and could see me in a way I had never been seen before and I wouldn’t change it. And so I don’t want this to come across as a, oh, be cautious, or oh, be warned, or, it was really important for me in so many different ways.
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And there were a lot of changes. I also went through that while I was being held in this community and this energy, which is very significant. There were also things that I went through in my own, my food journey I went through on my own. And I chose to keep that away from my teacher and for a lot of different reasons that I don’t know if they really matter that much right now, but I will say it’s one of those places that I named where it was like, this person doesn’t have mastery in this area. And being totally okay with that, but just also, so I think there’s a way that teachers can try to take credit or want credit or want acknowledgement for the shifts that their clients go through. And it’s gross. Honestly. I can see some places where, because the
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Energy I was being kind of steeped in was one of that, that I, there are a lot of different beliefs. This is going to be so all over the place. There are a lot of different beliefs that I took in subconsciously. And I think this is also a really important thing about being in a community and choosing to have a teacher and work with someone really deeply. And I don’t think you can really get, I don’t think it’s something you can not have necessarily. In my experience, it’s just been a part of being a part of a certain thing and then being separate from it and being like, wait, was I acting this way? Was I doing this because I just was having it modeled to me? Did I sort of just take that on as mine? And it reminds me a lot actually of my relationship with my ex, not my relationship, my breakup, because my breakup with my ex, when I originally broke up with him, I wasn’t breaking up with him because there was any sort of problem at all. I didn’t see anything at all wrong in the relationship. And it was only after I broke up with him. And the reason I broke up with him was because I just felt like it was true. I was like, I’m done. I want more. This just isn’t it?
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And it was only in this separation that I was suddenly able to see a lot of, it’s the same with our families. We grow up with our family and we’re like, this is just normal. This is just how it is. This is our beliefs about things and our beliefs about the world. And then we grow up and then we’re like, wait, I don’t know if I want that to be my belief actually. And I know that this belief was kind of part of all these other beliefs, but now that I’m an adult, I’m going to start to separate out what of my family stuff do I want to keep? What do I want to not keep? What do I want to be done with all these pieces? And I feel like I’ve been in a lot of that. And so the reason that I chose to leave, there was no reason I knew my two years were going to end in the end of August, back in maybe April or May. I actually told my teacher I was going to leave. It didn’t really feel like that landed. It didn’t feel like anyone really believed that that was the case or listen to me when I told them that that was what I was going to do. For me,
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This also is, it’s tricky to talk because I also need to be careful. I’m not trying to legally defame or slander anyone. So I’m kind of watching how I say things at the same time. So if you hear me kind of hesitate that is what I’m doing. But I chose to leave because I just felt done. I felt pretty done. I just felt complete and I knew I started to feel complete. I could start to feel little different things that were annoying me that might not have annoyed me otherwise if I hadn’t wanted to be complete. But there was a big event and I was going to do the big event. It was my year, my kind of completion like ceremony thing. And I figured it was important to me to leave on good terms. And I felt on good terms. I didn’t want to leave with any sort of drama. I just wanted to complete the two years and the two years to be over. There aren’t really any others, maybe a couple who have left my group in this community with calm, no drama, just separated fully on good terms. Everyone has stayed or been hired or been
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A couple of left with huge blowups in their own way. But it was also interesting. I was like, I’m the only one seemingly that’s separating and really wants to be separated. And I played around with it. I was very close with my teacher, I played around with working for her. I was working for her in certain ways, but I could feel there was just this enmeshment, this energy that I just didn’t want to be stuck in honestly. And I also felt like for my own growth, and for me as just a human, I think it’s really important when we make a commitment to a thing and we feel like it’s over, we’re complete. It’s important to feel ourselves separate and to be like, okay, who am I now? And originally when I thought I was going to leave, I thought I would come back. I thought I would leave for a month or two and just kind of feel where I was at and then go back because I felt like I had found the way the community, the only people who could see me like this thing. And I went to stay with my teacher in the beginning of August
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And she was super well, I know that she genuinely has a lot of love for me. And it was a very destabilizing thing for me to be there. And not at all in the ways that I expected. I really expected to be faced with a lot of my own stuff and instead
Demetra (01:17:47):
How to put it,
Demetra (01:17:54):
I mean I saw a lot of her as a human in her world. And part of me is it feels kind of mean to share this and to, there’s a lot of places where I’m like, I have a lot of compassion and a lot of love for her, truly I do, especially on just a soul level. And there was a lot of love for me too when I was there. That was true. And my experience in getting to see a lot of the behind the scenes was like, I don’t know if I don’t actually like this person or the way that this person shows up in her life in many different ways. The way this person shows up with me. Some of the things that I saw felt really shocking to me. Maybe they wouldn’t have been to you. And in the moment I think I was in full acceptance and approval. And I think with a teacher, at least for me, there’s a certain power dynamic that you’re agreeing to. So I don’t see it as my role to challenge that We’re not friends ultimately, no matter how much we try to act like friends, there can never really, there’s a power dynamic happening.
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And I guess, I don’t know. I’ve sat with this a lot for the last whatever, six weeks, and really parse through where my own stuff is, where it’s not. And ultimately the nicest way that I think I can put it in the most compassionate way. For me, I saw a lot of things that I really didn’t expect and that I expected certain things to some level, but not to the extent that I saw. And it called into question for me a lot of things. Because for me, in the things that I teach and in the way that I live, I absolutely live. I really practice it. And even in the moments where I am human and I slip or whatever, I really highly doubt that there is anything about me that would rock you. And it also called a lot into question for me around I think a lot of people in admire certain things about their teachers when they don’t have any semblance of that in their lives. But I have that in my life. I have a lot of these things that people admire about this community or whatever, this person in my life.
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And as someone who is in very clear and healthy relationship, there were just certain things that I saw that I was like, this isn’t it. And lots to be said about being vague, and I’m not trying to be vague, but I’m also trying to not slander or say things about someone. I think what I want to bring it back to is the intention of this for me is my own process in feeling just totally destabilized, really in the reality of what I saw. I know I can fucking see. Being able to piece through what’s my own ego stuff and my judgments and whatever, and being able to talk those through with people and put them to the side. And then also seeing the reality of what I saw and feel. And the shift for me from feeling like I really had this community that really fully saw me was really fully the thing, really people that were just going to be in my life forever no matter what, that I would be close to forever no matter what. And then I feel like I saw it all in a different way. I was like, I am not really like this. I don’t really want this.
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This doesn’t really fit with my who I am, how I show up. And the first couple weeks, especially being back, it was really, really hard for me. I just felt very rocked. I just felt very, like a lot of people that have left this community have called it all sorts of bad names and abusive and cult and all these things. And I would not say that ever. And I’ll say that being separate from it and having taken some time to be fully away, fully out, I understand the minds of the people who have left and felt that because
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I can feel the way that there are certain things that are unclean and I can see how it would be very easy for someone’s mind to then attach those different labels and want to label it as a certain thing and be like, this is harmful in these ways and whatever. I never thought I would say that because a couple months ago I was very adamantly, I know who this person is. I know what she’s like in her life. I know what she’s like, but I had never been there. I never lived at her house. I had never seen it. And it’s not to say that people can’t be human because of course they can be, but for me there is a line, especially when being someone who works with others and holds others of just integrity and someone saying they have a lot of integrity doesn’t mean that they are clear enough. They’ve worked through their stuff enough to really live that way. And it’s tricky. This person has created a lot of really beautiful things. The community is so beautiful in a lot of ways and I’ve been surprised actually at how easy it has been for me
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To be separate. Another belief too in that whole world is that taking what resonates with you is extractive. And I understand the theory, the concept of that, but in me ultimately, and this is not what I see in a number of other people, certainly not everyone, but a number of other people that are in this world, for me, what I feel in my body and what I know and the thing in the earth that I feel that leads me always. And the person holding whatever the person I’m learning from just doesn’t supersede that for me. And I don’t think this person would say that she wants it to, but I think that it ends up being that way for a lot of people. Yeah, I mean it’s just been really challenging for me to what happened when I left, this person had a big reaction. I a very see this where I’m like, is this slander? I know this person caress a lot about that. The way that this person reacted in my experience was just super enmeshed and inappropriate to the situation. And there’s a lot of beliefs that I have started to separate from and one of them being like, oh, this work is so lonely and so challenging and no one can understand me and it’s so painful and people leave and I know that this is just fuel for that story
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For ’em. Like me talking about it in this way, we will just get added on to that. But there are all these different pieces where I’m just like, I just don’t believe it’s not a part of my life. And so what’s happened for me is that I left because I knew I was complete I things that happened and then meeting this person in person and spending a lot of time, I saw a lot of things that really what it called into question for me was if I wanted to stay in relationship with this person and in the gentlest way, it just made me feel like maybe who this person is and who I am as a human just don’t match, just don’t really mesh in real life. And that’s okay. And there was certain medicine to be had and it’s complete. And then the reaction to me leaving confirmed a lot of what I already felt and was a lot. And then I started to be able to see a lot of stuff over the past couple of years that I kind of pushed to the side or just rolled my eyes at or just all these different pieces of this person’s my teacher. So I’m just,
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It’s not my role to challenge this here. This is person’s space, not my space. All these different things. And there’s been a lot of unwinding for me around like, whoa, okay, I just had this two years. That was really significant for me. And well, I was going to say Jordan worked with this person too, and I was going to say, and then I was like, I’m not going to speak for Jordan. There’s a lot there too. But now the first couple weeks it was a lot of stuff coming undone very quickly and just like I said, very kind of destabilizing and just very like, whoa, I really felt very certain and secure in this and that I was going to leave and come back and this was my world and this was all these things. And yeah, I have a husband, I have friends, I have people who are really deep in their work around me. I mean, I think there’s a whole lot I could speculate about even with the certain lineages of teachings and how they bring a lot of healing and a lot of transformation to people in certain areas. But again, it’s always through somebody’s human stuff and the way that
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People come out of these sets of teachings, especially when they don’t really separate and have some time to feel who they are. I mean, you can tell, especially when it’s something that I haven’t been a part of, I can really tell and just say this part of life wasn’t really healed in this body of work. But anyway, yeah, it’s been really challenging. I grieved a lot and there are certain things that I, it would’ve taken a lot longer or been very, there are certain things that happened for me. I just spent the whole month with my family and it was just the best to have those relationships with my family. A huge part of that is because of all the work that I’ve done over the past two years and the stuff I’ve about myself. And I think people really also need to realize that it’s not a magic pill either. It’s so much about the work you do when you’re in these spaces. And I see a lot teachers wanting to take credit for different things and it’s like
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I was very held by this certain community and a lot of the things I worked through were in that community and part of that and guided in that way for sure. And also, I worked with a therapist around my family for a year. The first year of that I did some other sessions with somebody else around specific family things, like all the different books, the different people I talked to, different things that weren’t a part of that. My whole food journey, me gaining so much weight, becoming a whole different person in the weight gain and in that transformation and letting my old self die. There’s so many other things too. And I think that’s what sometimes people don’t see or don’t want to see. And if you’re holding someone no matter who comes to work with you, you’re always going to be just a part of their journey. And unlike that’s healthy. So for me, I feel just I’m in this kind of new place of, I spent two years very deeply in a certain framework work. And now,
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Oh, and that’s what I was saying before too, is that I’ve been surprised at how relieving it almost is in a sense to be done and how easy it has been and how I’ve become a lot more aware of certain opinions I had about different people and different things and ways things were done, just different things that I didn’t really realize I had at the time. But then looking back I’m like, oh yeah, what did I think that this was different? And now for me it’s kind of like, okay, who am I and which parts of these teachings that have kind of infiltrated my life, which parts do I really agree with and which parts don’t I agree with? And that discernment is important no matter how much anyone tries to tell you that it’s not. It’s really important to have this process been leaving any sort of world. And I feel very as what the other thing I’ll say, and this is not fact, it is just how I felt. I started to really have this sense, especially the last few months and then especially in August after I said I was leaving and left, that
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I’ve been trying to do a lot of healing with my body. And I just had this feeling that I could not heal while in that energetic space. And I was looking at the other people kind of around me and the stuff they had going on and the teacher and what they had going on, all these different pieces and some other people had named that they felt this unclean energy in the field, in the space. And again, the other things, I wouldn’t frame it that way and I also don’t think there’s anything malicious or intended, but again, you have to see the person’s stuff. It’s being filtered through. And I just started to really get this sense that somehow the stuff going on in my body was linked to this space and to being held in this way. And this is energetic. There’s no way to prove that. I don’t know if that’s true. I’m just telling you that that is a feeling that I had and that was another piece of how I knew that it was time to go. I don’t think I felt that super clearly until August once I returned home. Part of that was how my body reacted to being in this person’s home.
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And I’m sure that other people can frame it any way they want, but I know for me what it was, and since I have separated, things are shifting in my body so rapidly and it feels like a lot of energy has been freed up and I’m no longer
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This community, this person has this belief that you’re always being held by them and you’re always, I don’t believe that at all. I don’t feel held. I don’t agree to that anymore. I agree for you’ve signed up for a concrete period. And ultimately the other thing I’ll say is that it’s a business. There’s a lot of love and spirituality and energetic pieces, and there’s a business agreement too of I pay you a lot of money and then in two years, that’s how long we’re committed to each other for. And when there’s a lot of enmeshment, I think it’s hard to be with the reality of that for people. But yeah, a lot has been shifting for me and I can feel in my body and in my energetic system why it wasn’t before what was stuck or what was just different pieces that were off. And it’s so tricky. I think the whole type of work is so tricky and I think that’s why people can demonize it a lot. And because while you’re agreeing to a lot of things that are the most incredible and that I would not change, it often comes along with
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A lot of stuff that isn’t good or doesn’t fit, and then we have to parse those out. I mean, I feel a lot better. I’ve just been really wanting to be really honest about what I’m moving through and where I’m at. And I’ve felt really stifled kind of because of not wanting to cause drama and not wanting to get sued for defamation or slander or causing, I don’t want to cause commotion. I don’t want to, all these things. And I know I brought a lot of ton of people into this community and there are many people that are still in common. And I really did not do not want to stir it all up. And for me, this has been huge. And in a way it’s really shown me myself in a very clear way. Yeah,
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Yeah. I’m still here. I’m just pausing and feeling into if there’s anything else to really say. I just wanted to tell you what I’ve been moving through on top of everything else. And then all this stuff with my family happened, and in some strange way it feels fitting that there was this healing with my family in the dissolution of this other thing and getting to feel the love for my family and what that feels like and really see my family for who they are and being able to compare that to what I saw when I was with my teacher and to really be able to question. I do think that there’s this place when I look at my own stuff and it all, I do think that there was a place where I felt like I finally found the thing. I found the person who can see me. I found the community, I found the thing that’s better than all other things. I found vwe. And now what it feels like in seeing the reality of what that looks like in regular life, all performance dropped away, all whatever dropped away. I’m like, this is not it for me. It’s actually not the thing. There’s certainly elements of it and medicine in it,
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And that’s my own stuff for wanting there to be a way and a thing and someone who has it all, but more than me. And to be able to turn back to myself and just be like, okay, well if even that was not the thing, the full thing, and I have to be my own thing. And really being able to look at that too and to be like, right. I mean that’s the point of all the work the whole time anyway with anyone. So there’s been a lot to sort through. I think it’s really important to take space and when you know it’s time to not be afraid to do that. And I love when people do that in my work. Yeah, I think that’s all I have to say about that for now. But I just wanted to, because I talked about this person a lot and brought a lot of people into that world and I just wanted to also just share that that’s not where I am now. And that’s shifting. And if you don’t like that, that’s okay. You don’t have to stay. If you do like that, cool. It just doesn’t matter. But I just wanted you to know that that’s whats going on and I’ve been moving through a lot of different pieces and
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Also feeling into my whole life, my life. I want to get pregnant next year and all these different pieces. Yeah, there’s a lot.
Demetra (01:55:42):
But
Demetra (01:55:43):
Yeah, I am excited to be able to show you my new website branding. All the things. Probably won’t happen until I’m aiming for the end of November, which will be my 30th birthday, but we’ll see. We’ll see. Yeah, so that’s what’s going on in my world right now. So if you want to stay connected, the best place to do that is demetranyx.com/newsletter. I can’t wait until that changes to Demetra Gray, which it will with the new website. Everything’s going to be shifting in really good ways. I think I’m really feeling into fall is the best time for that. And we came home and it just feels like fall here. It feels like we got to skip the end of summer and it’s great. And so I’m about to go make dinner and I just feel happy. Honestly, I feel very nourished and happy and just excited about fall and winter and ready to move into this next phase. Sadly, part of that is leaving a lot of stuff behind, and that’s how it always goes. I hope that some piece of this was medicine for you and your own process in your own way.
(01:57:43):
Okay, that’s all for now, and I’ll talk to you soon.