#66: How I know when to see a therapist, being able to hold sensation in your body, my journey with therapy and different phases, therapy vs coaching, the importance of having support

Episode description:

I recently hired a somatic therapist, so in this episode I decided to talk about how I know when I need different types of support. I talk about my journey with different types of therapy, how I choose a therapist, therapy and coaching serving different purposes, not spending too much time “fixing” yourself, and what it feels like sensationally in my body when I know I need some more support in moving through what is coming up. Our culture has a lot of emphasis lately on self-sufficiency and I touch on how to know when to hold something yourself and when it’s important to have support.

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Full episode transcript:

Demetra (00:08):

Hello, hello and welcome back to another episode of the Demetra Gray Show. Hopefully you cannot hear My neighbors are doing construction, um, quite close to me and I’m in a new spot today. I decided to record from bed. I’m recording, I’m sitting on my side of the bed in our bedroom where I have never recorded before, but I had the thought today cuz I guess I, I was thinking today like why have I ne never recorded from bed? And I thought maybe like, I guess it’s harder to sit cuz I kind of have to sit up to speak clearly in bed. But, um, I was like, maybe it’ll be quieter in there anyway because of the fabrics and things around. So anyway, I’m here <laugh> and our neighbors are putting in a new septic system and they have more land than us so they can like, I guess somehow, I guess they’re gonna cross the creek with their septic field.

(01:23):

I don’t really know, I don’t really understand it, but somehow they’re doing it, whether it’s legal or not, they’re putting in a new thing and I imagine, I don’t know, I don’t know if they’re doing it legally or not. Um, they would’ve had to get a lot of permits and things. It’s really hard. Like our land, it is extremely difficult. Like we couldn’t put in a septic system. Uh, even if we wanted to, I guess maybe we could have put in all of the permits and like gotten all of the things done, but then we would’ve had to tear up basically our entire land and then we wouldn’t have been able to have the well that we have. So we chose the well over the septic system and um, we got incinerating toilets instead. And the gray water issue remains to be solved, but I have faith that we will solve it this spring. Um, so anyway, I am recording from bed and I think that this episode is just gonna be a general update about a lot of different things and I have no plan for it whatsoever. So we will just see what comes.

(02:49):

Um, something I did want to talk about a little bit that I was thinking of earlier is, so I went and I saw a woman yesterday. I made an appointment with her. She’s a, I think she’s a somatic therapist apparently she’s also a registered psychologist. Um, but I was interested in, in doing some somatic therapy cuz my coaching was actually, my coaching training was actually quite somatic based, but I’ve never really done proper somatic therapy. And so I was curious to see what it was all about. And I still am curious, we just had like our initial appointment, but I was thinking about the distinction of how I know when it’s useful for me to hire external support. And I thought that sharing that might be helpful to some people. Um, because for me, I’ve noticed that ever since I started seeing, um, therapists, psychologists, just like hiring support, I have had a number of phases where I, um, oh, I have to sneeze.

(04:25):

Oh, no, <laugh>. Oh no, I think it went away. <laugh>. Oh my goodness. Um, there’s been a number of phases in my life n that now are fewer and far between. Up front it was more like front loaded, but I still notice occasionally that I am feeling a bit too much for me to be able to hold on my own, my body. And I wanted to share what that feels like. Um, when I was, the first therapist I ever saw was not a real therapist. <laugh> was, um, when I was, I was 19, so my brother’s accident had happened maybe like six months prior and I just felt like I needed help. And I saw some, like, I forget what his title was, it was at a wellness center and his title was like some sort of counselor, but he didn’t have any sort of real counseling, like certification from what I could tell.

(05:41):

Like, and I felt safer in that I think at that time. Like I, I don’t remember if I was too intimidated or maybe I just thought it was better to go outside of the traditional system. And I, I went to see him and I guess it was helpful we did. I, we only did a few sessions, but it was really unprofessional. Like he would text me and then <laugh>, I remember my roommate when I switched schools, I, my roommate, I was just writing about this the other day actually, my roommate, um, she had seen a therapist regularly for a while and I told her that like I had seen a therapist. I was like, oh, he’s texting me, like asking what my life vision is and saying that like it matches his own. And she was like, that’s really inappropriate. Like that’s not what therapy is, like <laugh>.

(06:38):

And I was like, it’s not. And so soon after that, I think I went to like one therapy session. Um, that fall I was really depressed and it was just a year after my brother’s accident had happened, I had switched school, so I had like gone away to a different school. So I was away. I didn’t really know anyone and I was just like really in a bad spot. And, um, I went to see a therapist at the school and she was how I decided to transfer home. And then, um, I had such a nice experience with her that I ended up hiring somebody else, uh, to, I think maybe, I think it was just a few months. It was like when I came back home. And then I realized that this was the first time I realized I had an eating disorder. Uh, I maybe had just turned 20.

(07:37):

So I think it was probably the beginning of 2013 when I worked with someone regularly and I really liked her. Like I think we find the people who are a good fit for us at the time. And I had some, I had a number of sessions with her and in retrospect she was like quite basic, but I was also 20 and I think it was a really good match for me. And we, unfortunately, I kind of wish she had talked to me more about food, but she didn’t, she kind of was like, she wasn’t familiar with orthorexia and she said she thought I had anxiety. And so we talked about anxiety and I remember actually all this is coming back now that I’m talking about it. <laugh>, I didn’t plan on talking about this at all really, but this is, we’ll just, I have a lot to say about this really.

(08:37):

Um, she was the first time anyone I had had a panic attack my first ever one, really my only one, um, a few months prior to seeing her. And I didn’t know to label it a panic attack. Like I didn’t, I didn’t know what it was called. I just know I just knew that I had this episode. It was triggered after a friend of mine died, um, which was like almost a year to the day after my brother’s accident happened. And I was driving and I just like was overtaken, like I just couldn’t breathe. I thought I was gonna die. I was screaming. I just like didn’t, I just lost control of my body. I didn’t know what was happening and I had to pull over and I like called my mom and then I called my roommate and I like, it was just really scary. And even then, no one, I don’t recall anyone labeling it to me, but when I saw this therapist, I remember she had asked me something like, um, like, do you ever have times where you’re struggling to breathe?

(09:45):

And I was like, no. And then I was like, yes, actually this one time. And I like told her this experience and she was like, oh, that’s a panic attack. And I was like, oh, I didn’t know this thing had a name. And um, actually I did have a panic attack years later when I, um, took birth control for a week. I had this ma it made it, but that was a different experience. That was like weird. That was not my own emotion. It was like, uh, that’s a whole different story <laugh> anyway. Um, but I’ve had many times since then where I’ve felt my body start to go in. Like it’s the beginning sensation of a panic attack. And I think through a lot of the work I had done in yoga and meditation and breath work, like I learned to be able to calm it down, like to not go into the full blown thing.

(10:40):

But for a while, like in my early twenties, it was really, really difficult. Um, and I have since every so often, like, uh, on a, in a really intense experience or a really intense time, I’ve had it come up, um, where I can feel like, oh, something’s really going on. Like, and usually it’s because there’s a motion that I’m not addressing where I can feel it underneath the surface. And so, um, I I, so I saw this woman and I don’t even remember what she taught me. I just remember that I talked to her and I remember actually also that they made me go see the psychologist. So like, she was a therapist and this clinic was run by this guy that she was kind of working under. And so all the patients had to go see him. And I went in to see him and actually I think my orthorexia <laugh> like saved me at this point because he immediately wanted to put me on drugs.

(11:52):

I was like, I was like, hey, like I had anxiety, like I had one panic attack and like one panic attack is not that many, right? Like I was like, I have one panic attack and I like worry that people are gonna die now that my brother was in this accident. And like I was struggling. I was like, but the therapy’s really helping me, like I’m starting to feel better. And he was like, well, we should put you on. Oh, what I think he to I think it was like a combination of things, but I know it was definitely like a anti-anxiety kind of medication. And I was like, no, I’m telling you like I don’t think that I need that because I think that I’m in a good spot. And he was like, no, you definitely need it <laugh>. He was like, he was like, you really need this medication because like therapy can do, do stuff on its own and the drugs can do stuff on their own, but doing them together is like the best way to make sure that it’s actually treated.

(12:59):

But I was really paranoid of like, I was barely like months prior to that I was barely eating any food. I was eating like, I was scared of all chemicals. I was scared of like everything. And so when he suggested like, go on these drugs, I was like, no way. But it was, and in retrospect, thank God because what a ridiculous thing. Like I just can see so many other scenarios that I imagine a lot of people get into where like had I not had the paranoia of the chemicals at that point, I would’ve been so susceptible to someone being like, oh, you need to be on this medication. And I would’ve just been like, okay. Um, but I definitely did not need to be on medication like that. So anyway, I, but I had to see him. And then I remember going back and telling my therapist what had happened. She was like, yeah, well, she was like, you’ll never have to see him again, don’t worry. Everyone only has to see him once <laugh>. I was like, okay. Uh, so that happened. But I saw her for a few months and then I got to the, this point where I started to feel like, and I think this is where she wasn’t the most skilled therapist, is that my sessions started to feel like I would go in and just be like, I’m doing really well. And she would be like, okay, good job. And then I would leave.

(14:30):

So, uh, you know, it was, it was, it was good for what it was and I stopped going. And then maybe was that another year, a couple years later? So I took a break and I did other things. Like I, I explored, I did like shamonic training and more yoga training and I was like doing all these different things. And then, so I think I’ve always had this balance between, um, like more, I don’t even know what to call it, like western, like traditional western medicine and more holistic medicine I guess would be the term. I think. Um, I, and it’s a balance that I’ve still, I I think it’s like an ongoing thing that I’ll always have to find. But um, when I, so a couple years later I went and I saw a different therapist and she was a lot more skilled. Um, she was a really good match. She was the first person I saw who like, I must have been, I must have been like 23, but she was a really good match for me in terms of like, she challenged me on a lot of things in the way that the first woman did not. And this is why like if people are looking for a therapist, I often have said to them like, you want to

(16:23):

Look for someone who feels like a good fit. And it might take a few times to have that happen because there are people who aren’t as good as other people. And this woman happened to be a really good fit and I’ve been pretty good. Like, I always read the reviews and I like read the person’s site and I read a number of different people’s sites to get a feel for each person and then sense like who will be the best fit for me? And I’ve done pretty well, uh, in that way. And this woman I probably worked with for maybe like six months and she helped me a lot with boundaries. Like, she helped me a lot with stuff with my parents and that was, was happening and boundaries and having hard conversations with my parents. And that was incredibly helpful for me too. And so, um, I can’t really remember, I think for both of these women, I just had a sense of like,

(17:36):

I think in my earlier twenties it was like, I don’t really understand what’s happening and I want someone to help. Like I just want someone to help me like look at what’s happening and talk through what’s going on with me. And I found it very, very useful to tell my story to people and to hear what they had to say and hear their reflections about me. And um, then I think after this woman, that was when I, I got really into the coaching world and so I did a lot of different like trainings and programs and things that were more coach like coaching and then more spirituality based. And a few years ago, so when I first came to meet Jordan, I experienced this very strange thing that I hadn’t experienced before, which was like, I thought I had done a lot of work because I had seen different therapists and I had done this coaching training and I had done a lot of different, like in order to be a coach through this program, you had to be coached and also co and like, so I had, I had done a lot of work with my sexuality and work with emotions and my own practices at home and things like that.

(19:02):

And I felt like I have had a big range of experiences. But when I moved to Vancouver with Jordan, there was something that happened because I, I didn’t know it at the time, but what happened was that I, I moved, so I met Jordan really quickly, moved from California to Vancouver. I’d only lived in California for like eight months or something, I think six, seven months when I came to meet Jordan. And oh my God, there is a fly <laugh>. Let me just tell you a quick side note for the life of me, I cannot figure out why these flies are living in our house. Like they, we did not have any pro like unusual problem with flies in the summer. There were a bunch of them that would come in, but it wasn’t like excessive. And then it got cold and they went away and then it got warm.

(20:16):

Like there was one weird warm day in like November or something and all of the flies came out and it was like we had a hundred flies in our house. Like they were just, and they were all conglomerating around, I think that is the word around this window. And they just, I was like, is something dead? Like, what is going on? And these flies were just like there. And I called the pest people and they were like, oh, they, these flies, like they live inside, they hibernate inside the walls essentially. And sometimes they think when it gets warm they think it’s s springtime. And so they come out and then they’re confused because it’s not actually spring. And so, and they were like, they were dumb flies. They were just like slow and just strange. And so now they, most of them went away when it got cold again.

(21:06):

But every day I kid you not, there is at least one fly in our house. And there is, there’s, right now there is one in our skylight in our bedroom and a couple times Jordan has had them. Jordan sits on the couch in the other room when there’s another skylight. He sits right under the skylight and occasionally the fly will like be up in the skylight. And I don’t know if it like what happens to it, but somehow it dies. And he has had a dead fly a number of times just like land on him, like just fall down from the ceiling and land on him. And one day I came into our bedroom and there was a fly, a dead fly on his pillow <laugh>. And I was like, I can’t do this. Like, I think that if a dead fly landed on me, I would burst into tears.

(22:01):

Like I just don’t, I don’t want it, but I hate, I don’t know why they’re still here when it’s January. I just like, I can’t get rid of them. I don’t necessarily want them, like the pest people had said they could come spray, but like, I feel like that’s not that good to do. I don’t don’t wanna do that, but why are they here? I’m just like, why? Well shouldn’t it be hibernating in the wintertime? I don’t get it Anyway. What, when now when I go on a tangent, I have to remember how to come back. So <laugh>, oh, I remember. So I moved to Vancouver and in all aspects this should have been, or it felt like it should have been the happiest time of my life. Like I had just met this man who I was super in love with. It felt so magical. I just like moved myself to a new country that I loved. It was exciting. And we had gotten an apartment together, so we had moved into this apartment and I suddenly just, I just felt so sad. And we moved in in the end of October and so November and December came in. It was around the time of my brother’s accident, like the anniversary.

(23:21):

And I was like, I know that I get sad every year, but this feels different. Like, it just felt really overwhelming and it felt like I just was crying every day and I just felt like, I don’t know why it’s so strong all of a sudden. Like, it, it didn’t make sense to me. I was like, you know, I’ve grieved this for a long time and I don’t understand why it’s coming up now in this way. And I, Jordan had been seeing this therapist and I think I had seen, I went, I had met her once because <laugh>, I guess this is a normal thing to do. In our first month of us dating, like our first date, I came to one of Jor Jordan’s therapy sessions with him and I can’t remember why he would know better. I guess it was becau I think it was because he just like, it was a big deal for him to let someone in, in the way he was. And I think he just, like, it was healing for him to have me and his therapist witness him at the same time we did some inner child stuff.

(24:39):

Um, but so I had met her and I was like, okay, well maybe I’ll go see her. And I went to see her and I saw her for a long time. Well, I saw her maybe, maybe six months or so, like consistently. But then I still was seeing her once a month for like a while after that, maybe like a year after that. I was still seeing her occasionally. And in our, I remember in our first session she said to me sometimes when we move around so much like she was like, even though it feels like you’ve done a lot of work because you haven’t lived in a stable place in basically the whole time it was like seven or eight years since the accident had happened. She said your nervous system hasn’t actually been able to settle. So it sounds like this is the first time it’s, you’re rooting somewhere that feels like you’re gonna be here for a long time.

(25:46):

And so there’s more layers that are coming up that your body wouldn’t let you feel before that you’re starting to be able to feel now because you’re actually rooted in a place. And I hadn’t really recognized that. Like I didn’t, I didn’t know that that was even a thing. And so to, to put words to that, I was like, oh, there’s a reason why all this is coming up now and it’s, it’s this old stuff that’s, that hasn’t been able to process all the way through my body. And so we did a lot of work together, like, and um, I don’t even remember exactly what we did, but she helped me tremendously. Like we, again with stuff with my family and setting boundaries and um, talking about the time of my brother’s accident and talking about different ways that I handled things and she was just an, uh, regular like talk therapist. We, there was no somatic, uh, sometimes I guess she would ask me to feel my body, but it wa it wasn’t like she wasn’t touching me or that kind of thing. And that was, um, really valuable for me. And then I, I felt at some point, like I just kind of felt like I,

(27:27):

I don’t wanna say outgrew her cuz I’m not saying like suddenly I became superior, but it just felt like I like sort of that phase was done. Like I was just like, oh this, this doesn’t feel like the thing anymore. Like this doesn’t feel like what I need and, and the way that it feels in my body. So this time, the reason that I hired this woman and I can’t really tell you about this woman cuz yet cuz I have like, I only saw her one time and we didn’t really do a proper session. I more just told her what I had been feeling. But for me, what I notice in my body and what I’ve been noticing, ESP I’ve had a big last few months and um, especially the last month with starting to write my book as I’ve been writing, it’s brought so much up in a different way then I have really been able to look at it. Like I’ve, I’ve told the story out loud to different people. I’ve, um, worked with different therapists and I’ve worked with different like coaches and different things,

(28:55):

But as I’m writing it’s just very different to sit down and tell this like, to, to be honest with yourself I guess through writing something. And as I’ve been writing I’ve been like, this feels like it’s bringing up a lot and, and often I surprise myself while writing. Like I, I, I never know when I sit down what I’m gonna write about that morning. It’s just what happens to come out. And as I’ve been writing, I’ve been like, wow, a lot, a lot happens in these, this first half of my twenties that I haven’t been able to process all the way even with all of the different stuff that I’ve done. And I think we go layers deeper when we’re able to, when when I guess when our bodies feel safe enough to access what’s there.

(30:00):

But even a big thing was, um, like my parents divorced. Like usually when I talk about the loss in my early twenties, I like check it off. Like I’m like, oh yeah, this happened, then this happened, then this happened, then this happened, then this happened. And it’s like all these losses in a row and sometimes I’ve been able to brush over them and I’ve just been, and like as I’ve been writing I’m like wow, I didn’t really get to process my parents’ divorce. Like I didn’t, when it happened, I certainly didn’t. And I guess in working with different people at different times, I was able to talk about it like as it pertained to the moment of setting boundaries with my parents or, or different things like that. But what it meant for me and feeling in my body what it felt like. Like I haven’t really done that until I started to write.

(30:57):

Like I think there was a way that I, um, at the time I just justified it as like that just needed to happen and that was what was gonna be best for everyone and I didn’t really feel what that meant for me or how I actually felt about it. So anyway, like that’s been coming up, but the way that it feels in my body is what I go by. And in the last few weeks since I’ve been writing and I can see like I had really bad eczema and max my hands, you might have seen, I put a photo on Instagram of me, like with my computer and my hand, uh, it’s like a black and white photo, but it’s, the eczema is really bad in Canada. They say eczema, <laugh> and not eczema. So I’m like, in my head, I, I constantly have to switch back and forth cuz otherwise people get confused.

(31:55):

But it was really, really bad. And I think I’ve never had it flare like that. And there can be a number of reasons like I’m on these supplements to like help replenish my body and whatever. But to me it felt very aligned with the emotional stuff that I was processing. Like it felt like I started to process these emotions and my body started to react physically in a number of ways. And I was like, I can feel how stressed my body is, like just how much there is in my body. And it feels like there’s this new deeper layer of things that’s able to come up to the surface and I can’t hold it on my own is how it feels. And the way that I know when I am, when I can’t hold it on my own is because I avoid it a lot. Like I’m just like, I could use these different tools that I have. Like I could do breath work or I could journal about that specifically or I could um, you know, try to intentionally move emotion through my body or whatever. But I avoid doing that. And when I tune into like, why aren’t I doing these things, it’s like, it’s just way too much. Like I just can’t hold it by myself. And I think that this is an important piece to recognize for all people is that I think that we live in a society that’s very

(33:39):

Independence oriented and like people want to be sovereign and self-sufficient and do things themselves and not be dependent on anybody else. And that’s actually not healthy either. Like as humans we are dependent on one another. We’re interdependent, we are a community-oriented species and so we’re, we’re supposed to be able to use the community and be supported by community and held in community. And our inability to do that or to only be able to do that, like when we’re leading or we’re in charge or whatever is trauma ultimately. Like that’s not a, a healthy human response. And I think that there can be a lot in like the new ag kind of world. There can be a lot of talk about, um, self-sufficiency and healing ourselves and all of these different pieces. And for me I think it’s important to recognize that not only sh can we not, I guess not only should we uh, should we not be able to do it, our <laugh>, what am I trying to say? We we shouldn’t be able to do it by ourselves and we can’t do it by ourselves. Gloves

(35:23):

Is what I’m trying to say. That like we there sh there should be no goal of I have to hold all this, all my on my own and I have to be able to navigate through this on my own and somehow that’s better than requiring support from other people. And I think it’s truly, I know that, that a lot of support can be hard to access for most people say especially financially like it, it really is too bad the way that our society is set up to not value care like this or that the way that most care is is like, like I just think mental care, emotional care in our society is so lacking in general. Like, it, it, I’ll never forget that I was, I was coaching someone once and this person had had a mental health thing come up that someone in their life called um, like reported it to the police. And while I was on the call with this person, the police showed up and I was just like the watching cuz the police didn’t really like I was still on this call. It was such a weird, like it was a really intense experience to have as like a beginning coach.

(36:51):

But um, watching like I got to watch the way the police handled responding to this mental health situation and I was just like, this is like not helpful at all. Like this is the opposite of helpful in the way, the entire way that they were like their behavior. Um, all of it. And I, I think sadly a lot of people’s experience with doctors are like, my experience with that guy who was just like, all right, well we’ll put you on this medication. And it’s like, what about the rest of what, like what about my life? And like the stories of me and even I think just stories is so important. Being able to tell our stories in community and anyway, um, I think there can be a lot of focus on, or like somehow people think that we outgrow therapy that like, um, um, I, I see this a lot in the coaching world that people just think that therapists like are like for the beginning stages and coaching comes later. And I have,

(38:17):

I have, it’s interesting cuz I think I kind of like, I may have repeated that at times because that’s what other people said, but that’s never actually been my experience and I actually don’t think it will ever be my experience. I think it’s really good to have a combination of support like it, it’s good to have different kinds of support at different times and to be able to know what we might need in the moment and be willing to try out different things to see what we need in the moment. Um, for me, for the last whatever, like I always like to have some type of support and for most of the last year, um, I was seeing two different body workers. Like I was getting massages at least like ones or twice a week, but they weren’t really massage. They were like, one was lymph and acupressure and then one was um,

(39:21):

A raw thing like working with my tissue and just helping my body move better. But both of these functioned for me as really supportive to my physical body in a way I really needed. And also emotionally cuz it, it just gave me like someone who knows my body week after week and I see them regularly for many, many months and they’re like holding me through this part of my process. And I started to feel a few weeks ago I was like, I think maybe the physical time is sort of ending or pausing for now. Like I think, I think I was in this really physical phase of healing and now I think I wanna stop those and move more into like, I wanna try somatic therapy. There was something else I was gonna, oh, and I saw, I did a, a call with a homeopath and so this is more like energetic, emotional and I’m curious about the somatic therapy because where I, I can feel that where I’m at right now, I don’t need to talk more about like, I don’t need to tell the story over and over and over again. <laugh>. Like I don’t, I have done a lot of like talking and telling of the story. What I need is somebody to hold me while I feel what’s there in my body and to be able to guide me into it because I can feel,

(40:53):

Um, for the past month or so, I can just feel that when I close my eyes and feel my body, it just feels so full of like unprocessed stuff. Like it just feels like there’s a lot of emotion here and it’s too much to go into on my own. And I think it’s just such an important thing to be able to notice. Um, and, and I see, I think a lot of people still have this belief that like they shouldn’t need help or that going to get support means something bad about them. Like it means like they aren’t doing things well enough on their own or, um, I think there are different categories. Like some people are just like, I don’t want help. That’s like not interesting to me. But then some people I think do want help, but they’re like, I shouldn’t need it. Or I’ve already done therapy ever in my life so I like shouldn’t need to go back. And it’s like, no, we all have these different phases where different things are able to come up and we’re always gonna be able to go deeper with somebody else than we can on our own. It’s just,

(42:30):

And I think it’s because there’s just an added element of safety with somebody else there, someone else holding the space. Like we can quote unquote like lose control a bit more. We can go into our subconscious, like we can drop deeper when someone else is there that we trust that’s holding the space and

(42:54):

We shouldn’t be able to, we, we shouldn’t be expected to be able to hold that on our own. And I think it’s important to also to know, um, that coaches are not, uh, most coaches are not, um, working with trauma. And so when you have trauma, which most people do, all of the mindset stuff or spiritual stuff, I was just reading someone’s post the other day that was saying something like this, um, all of the work on like your mindset and manifestation and all these things, it’s nice and it, it can do a lot but it’s, it’s not the same as doing trauma work to help release the emotion and the, the stuck energy in your body. They’re very different things and I think a lot of problems happen when uh, coaches start to feel superior to this or haven’t done, haven’t addressed their own trauma, right? There’s a lot of, uh, coaches who have never worked with their own trauma, um, deeply at all. And so it’s just important I think to recognize that we need different kinds of support at different times and it doesn’t follow this linear path. Um,

(44:31):

<affirmative>. Yeah, and I think, I think in our profession, like Jordan and I will often roll our eyes at different things that therapists have told our clients cuz a lot of them have been like quite ridiculous. It’s just like, oh my god, I can’t believe a therapist told you that. I think I was working with someone once who told me that like her therapist had told her that maybe she was asexual and I was like, you’re not asexual, you just have a lot of unprocessed stuff around sex. Like, it was so clearly not the case. And when she came to me she was like, well my therapist said this and I was like, this is not it. And it turned out to not be true at all, but it was just like therapists will say these things sometimes that it, it’s, you know, but I think it’s like that in any profession.

(45:22):

Like I’m sure there are coaches like that too and, and it happens, but each, each profession, like each thing has its place. Um, and I think it’s, it’s good to recognize like when we need each, even with the eczema on my hands, I, I don’t know if you’ve heard of German new medicine, but people are talking a lot about Germany medicine and um, like healing yourself in this like empowered healing kind of thing. And uh, even with the people that I’m working with there it can be talk of like, oh, this eczema is just your body, like expressing something at your body telling you something. So don’t put something on it to suppress it. And I kind of, I hold both where like for a number of weeks I was like, okay, I understand why this is coming up. Like eczema in Germany medicine is a, um, they call it like a con like in Germany medicine everything is a conflict and eczema is a separation conflict.

(46:33):

And it’s like, I totally understand <laugh> why like every, the biggest theme right now is separation. For me, there’s been a lot of like talk about separation of, of um, loss, like of all the loss in my life, but also in ways that I, um, have felt separate anyway, there’s just like a lot of different, it makes a ton of sense and just letting it do its thing was getting to a point where like the eczema on the rest of my body is like very mild, but on my hands it got really intense and I think because I was like washing my hands and doing things with my hands, like I I just was like putting some herbal like sav and stuff on it and it didn’t get any better and then it got infected at some point. I think probably I scratched it and then I think at one point I let our friend’s dog lick one of my hands and that <laugh> I think made it worse.

(47:39):

But anyway, it got super infected and then I was like, oh no, like I don’t wanna put stuff on it to suppress it, but also this is like a problem. And I was doing, I was putting cleanser, I was doing red light, I was doing all these things and it like wasn’t getting any better or it would get better for a day and then it would come back and I was like, I have to use the cortisone cream. Like I know that I put an antibiotic on it twice to stop it, stop the infection and then I just started using the cortisone and it’s like I know that the cortisone is technic like theoretically it’s suppressive. I mean it is suppressive, it like suppresses your immune response, but my skin started to heal like when I started to use the cortisone, like it was able to finally heal. And I don’t know what will happen when I start, stop using the cortisone, but I am, I think that it’s healed enough that my body will be able to like, it’s not gonna go back to where it was, but I think like we need to have this balance of like, and this is where I try to, I think my journey with food has helped me a lot with this is like,

(48:51):

It doesn’t do any good to be overly paranoid of like western approaches to medicine either. Um, like I think it’s good to have a balance of both things. Like when I was having all these issues, um, with my bleeding and my menstrual cycle, um, it was a good thing to be able to go to the doctors and like rule out anything really bad and to be able to get things tested and be like, um, you know, what do they think is going on? And then I still declined there. Like she was like, you can take the pill. And I was like, I don’t want to take the pill. Um, but I think it’s just, it’s, it’s good to have everything be a part, like everything plays its role and I think a lot of our journeys is like finding out, um, our own particular balance of what works best for us. Okay. Well <laugh>, I didn’t mean to say, I was like, I thought this episode was gonna be a lot about like all different things, but it wasn’t, it was only about this topic <laugh>. So I guess I just had a lot more to say on it than I thought. Like I,

(50:29):

I have been considering like, I think it’s, it’s quite easy for me now to just be like, um, to get to ask for support in this way. And I think I might even ask for, maybe I ask for support like an unusual amount compared to most people, but I think that, and sometimes it can be, sometimes it can be frustrating to like, feel like there’s still so much left even when we’ve done so much already. And I also think it’s not good to like get caught in this endless cycle of like over-processing and fixing and just like thinking that we need to endlessly make ourselves better and like endlessly, um, fix ourselves and heal and whatever. Like I think at some point there comes a point where like, just living your life is good, but for me, I just notice when there are particular times that I have sought out therapy in particular, um, and those times are when in my body I can just feel like, and maybe this wouldn’t pertain as much to someone who hasn’t experienced trauma, like maybe it’s more trauma specific, but I just think that the way that I know for me is that,

(52:08):

Um, I will feel just too like I can’t, even though I have all these tools and I respect the tools that I have and I use the tools that I have and I believe in them so much. Sometimes there’s so much that we need the support of others too. And when I feel that I’m just like, oh, I need something like what feels like the right type of support for me right now. So anyway, I always like to have some form of support pretty much always in one way or another. Like I said, I’ve been doing a lot of body work and things like that, but um, this kind of specific like more trauma oriented work, uh, seems to pop up every few years like in a deeper way. And so I think I’m about to enter into another phase of that as I’m writing and just like bringing all this up.

Demetra (53:17):

Okay.

Demetra (53:18):

<laugh>,

(53:19):

I wanted to tell you, I was gonna tell you like all these updates on like my garden and the house and paint colors and all these things, but I, I’ll save that for next time. Um, okay, so that is all for now. Um, if you could, if you could go rate this podcast wherever you’re listening, I would really, really appreciate it. Just like the podcast in general, not this episode, <laugh> just like if you could go rate the, the show that would be super helpful. It helps other people find it too and um, I really appreciate it. So if you could just go, even if you just click the stars and you don’t even have to write anything, you just click the stars, that is very, very helpful, um, and helps other people find me too. Okay, that is truly all for now and I’ll talk to you soon.