#65: Having difficult conversations, being firm & kind, setting boundaries, breaking up with someone, stating your needs, and staying open

Episode description:

A hallmark of maturity is being able to have hard conversations. In this episode I give a few different examples from my own life and break down how exactly I approached each person. I talk about being firm and kind, the perspective to take when having a conversation like this with someone, what to do before and during the conversation to make sure it goes as well as possible, and the importance of telling the truth. I also talk about what happens when we grow up with a lot of good girl conditioning and how we can swing the pendulum to being too intense, and how to find the balance in the center. 

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Full episode transcript:

Demetra (00:08):

Hello, hello and welcome back to another episode of the Demetra Gray Show. I am walking in the rain, so the sound today is going to be how it is and I am hoping that I don’t get caught in a downpour. My phone says that it’s only gonna let up raining for a little bit and then it’s gonna start again. But I feel like there’s a chance that it doesn’t start again right away. It’s like very slightly drizzling and I have these massive rain boots on, so I’m hoping that uh, the sound of my rain boots, you can’t hear them too much. But I was walking and I was like, I wanna do this while walking. So we’ll see how it goes.

(01:13):

So, oh man, I’ve spent today like agonizing over pink colors. If you have seen my Instagram, I made a reel where I put up all my Pinterest boards, like I made a Pinterest board for each room to feel the kind of vibe of each room and I made a Pinterest board for each. And then I went to order all of the paint samples from the paint store so that I can test them out this week. And I realized that they’re all half off only until today <laugh>. So then I was like, oh no, I should like half off like I should put them all in my cart now. But then I couldn’t decide on the green for the bedroom, so it just like, it was a little stressful <laugh>. So anyway, we’ll see what, what I end up doing, but it’s like that kind of thing where it’s 50% off so then you end up getting just like doubly more than you would have otherwise. I mean they’re really cheap, but I think I ended up with like 40 of them in my cart and I was like, this is just gonna be insane. Like I do not need to have 40 different paint samples to be painting on my walls. Like I need to narrow it down. So anyway, we’ll see if I managed to do that. Oh, you can hear, can you hear my rain boots in the puddles?

(02:49):

Some sort of bird making sounds. Oh, it’s so nice. It really is so beautiful here when it rains and it rains a lot because I am in the Pacific Northwest, although I will say it rains less than I thought that it rained. As someone who didn’t live here, like I was under the perception that it was just like 24 7 rain, like all year round basically when I didn’t live here and now that I live here I’m like, that’s not the case at all. It barely rains during the summer and winter is just a lot of rain, but not all rain and rarely snow. So it’s a very different kind of winter, but I do love it. Anyway, so <laugh>, today’s topic. I really wanted to talk today about having difficult conversations and how to have them examples in my life from ways that I’ve handled things recently. And I think that it’s such a skill. It’s been really up for me recently. It was up especially yesterday. Um, I had to call someone to let her know that one of her employees may have stolen something from our house. I don’t know for sure. Um, but

(04:36):

Anyway, I’ll get to that in a bit. But um, I had to call her to let her know and I was nervous to have this conversation and then when it happened it was so easy and I was just like, wow, <laugh> like this is so much easier for me now than it ever would have been. And I just wanted to talk a little bit about that. So I think at least in my life experience, people in general have been horrible at saying something that’s difficult to say and that was kind of what was modeled to me. Like we either avoided having a hard, hard conversation, um, it just didn’t happen or there was a lot of like charge around something, a lot of emotional intensity in places that it didn’t totally make sense. And I think that most people end up on this kind of spectrum where

(05:52):

Either it’s all being bottled up or it’s the other extreme and being just like intensely let out. And I think I know that there is a way to find the middle ground of this and to have it feel really easy and pleasant because I really believe that the truth ultimately when we’re telling the truth that benefits everybody even though it might not seem like it is in the moment, being honest about how you’re feeling and what you believe and who you really are, I think is um, well I’ll say the result of that is that we end up having relationships that are really honest, where we’re actually our whole self is allowed to be in the relationship and we prevent anything that might happen. You can probably hear the creek that is like a river <laugh>. I’m walking over it right now.

(07:15):

Um, <affirmative>. Yeah. So, um, when we’re really honest, we get to be in relationships where we actually matter, like our opinions, our beliefs, everything, the whole picture is on the table. And of course with different people there will be different extents of this. Like there are certain things that I don’t talk about with my parents, not because I am hiding it or I couldn’t, but just because like it doesn’t make sense, you know, with who they are. And like you’re gonna naturally, different aspects of yourself will come out more with different people and I really believe that we all deserve to have relationships where all parts of us are allowed to exist and allowed to be there. And I think this is part of that and I’m gonna talk today a bit about, um, it’s come up for me a lot when hiring, but it also, maybe I’ll talk a little bit too about relationships and being able to name something to your partner, breaking up with a partner, things like that where it can be really challenging. And often we have these conversations in really, really messy ways, which is okay as we learn, but ultimately it’s possible for it not to feel so messy and instead for it to feel, feel really enjoyable.

(08:57):

And like I said earlier, pleasant in the sense that maybe pleasant, maybe peaceful is a better word, <laugh>, like it might not feel super well for me. I guess I’m saying pleasant because it feels enjoyable to me when I’m able to just be totally honest in a way that feels very clean with someone And uh, yeah. Okay, so <laugh>, um, I think that we’ve all been there when it goes poorly and I think when it goes poorly it can feel just like even if we feel like we’re hurting someone’s feelings or we’re hurting somebody when we do it in a messy way, even if we’re trying to spare their feelings by doing it in a messy way, it often feels way worse than if we were just really, really clear with how we feel. Okay, so I’ll get to the <laugh> to the examples. So I just want to preface by saying that I think this can feel really foreign to a lot of people and it makes sense that it does because it’s very rarely modeled to us. Because something you also have to have the ability to do is to be uncomfortable and be okay with having say an uncomfortable silence and not jumping in to try to make it better, but to be able to name something and then sit in the feeling

(10:57):

And letting the other person have all their feelings and have all their responses to whatever the thing is that you just named and, and being, staying focused on what’s true and what you need to share as opposed to trying to save them from whatever their response is going to be. Because the moment that you start to filter to try to spare them a certain feeling, then you’re no longer being completely honest. And my way of of dealing with things is usually to name the truth and then to uh, just let the cards fall where they may. And I have certainly had my fair share of um, doing this in more messy ways and I think that that’s just how we learn to do it in ways that feel good. So, uh, <laugh>, I’ll tell you the example from me yesterday. So, um, there’s a woman I don’t wanna name like who exactly the people are cuz it, I don’t even know that it happened for sure. But basically the story is that, and hopefully you can apply this to some incident in your own life, even if it’s not exactly the same. But, so I’ve mentioned to you all that I’ve had an aura ring, you haven’t heard my aura ring, uh, tracks all my movements and like my heart rate and stuff. I got it a few months ago. I was super excited about it. I bought one for my sister, I like made my mom get one. I was super into the aura ring and I was very careful with it. It was mine. I got like the special rose gold one, it was like $600 and I was like,

(12:57):

Um, just quite careful with it. Like I either, I wore it to sleep if I wore it during the day, like if I ever took it off, I took it off when I showered or I took it off and put it in the charger in the morning after sleeping. And um, so on this particular day I remembered and my app, my phone tracks the ring. So um, I could see that my, the app tracked accurately with my memory, which was that I woke up and I put the ring in the charger and then somebody came to our house and Jordan and I were not home. And then later that night when we went, when we uh, got back and that evening I went to put it on before bed and it was gone and it was sitting out on the counter, um, on the little ring charger, which is not very secure. So there’s always the chance that it could have somehow, I don’t know, like gotten knocked off somewhere and um, cleaned up or I thought I was tracking back to what I did that morning. And um, I knew, I remembered putting a load of was in and I was like, maybe I put the was in and somehow it came off

(14:27):

And maybe it was in the washing machine and we just happened to buy new was and dryers this weekend. So, um,

(14:36):

I actually had someone like take apart the washer and see if it was in there and it was not. So, um, I was left with this kind of uncomfortable situation where I was like, I can’t say for for sure it would be a really weird thing for somebody to steal, but I have in my life I have had people, uh, working at my house steal things. Um, so I also have had the experience where even though you like don’t wanna believe that somebody would ever do that and um, you want to uh, think the best in people think of the best, um, it’s not always accurate <laugh> and sometimes people do things like that and so I didn’t know for sure. I still don’t know for sure if she took it. Um, I, the thing is that with the aura ring, you can track it so I could track on my phone and see that it didn’t like roll under the couch or something.

(15:55):

It was definitely, uh, not in the house cuz my ring like it would connect to my phone and it had a full battery cuz it was just charging. So it, it would have, um, connected to my phone and I downloaded this other app that can find your ring anywhere in your house. And I used that and it was just nowhere to be found. And the only other place I went that morning was our friends and they hadn’t seen it. It wasn’t in my car. Um, so I looked like everywhere it could be. And I know that if I had took it, taken it with me when I left the house, I would’ve put it on my finger. So, um, there’s this situation where it’s like, okay, these people, like this person’s supposed to come back to our house and I don’t want to have them at our house <laugh> because like I know that if I just say, well they probably didn’t take it, but it’s still missing, I’ll feel really uneasy whenever they’re at our working at our house.

(17:08):

So, um, the, this person has a, a boss who I usually communicate with and um, I think I was gonna write to her, I didn’t know what to say, like if I was gonna write and Jordan was like, why don’t you call her? And I was like, yeah, that’s definitely the move. So I ended up writing to, uh, the owner, I’m just saying, Hey, I’d like to talk to you about something, are you free this weekend? And she said, yes, I can chat this afternoon, here’s my number. And I called her and the way that I, um, brought it up. So there’s so many things, like I could have been angry and accused her right? Or accused her employee or I could have skirted around it. I could have been like, have you had any issues with stealing before? Or I could have been like, oh, just like ask her if she saw it, but it probably wasn’t her.

(18:21):

And so in all of these different options of ways to approach it, I have to balance it. The way I think about it is that I have to balance it with what do I need? Like where is my boundary? What do, what is it that I need from the conversation? What I need from the conversation is that I can’t have this person come back to our house. And I’m hoping that she didn’t even take it, but just for my peace of mind, I can’t have her come back just in case. And so that’s something that I need. I’m not gonna override my own need by just being like, oh, it’s fine, it’s probably not like whatever. And then having that be under the surface and I’m sure that sh the person doesn’t even want to be there either if that’s like a thought I might be having Anyway.

(19:12):

So there’s that. And then there’s also like being honest, and I waited almost two weeks to have the conversation cuz I wanted to check the washer and I wanted to check all the things and just really make sure. Um, so by the time I, like I had been really upset at first, but with the time that went by, I had some time to calm down and just be very centered. And the place I was in yesterday when I called was just like, I’ve, I’ve accepted that it’s gone. Like whether I lost it or she took it, it’s gone. And I hope that I was the one who lost it even though I don’t really think I was. And like that’s just it. Like, okay, it’s gone. If I want another one, I can get another one. I don’t know that it’s worth double the cost of it to me.

(20:12):

I kind of am like maybe I got what I needed from it. I don’t know. So there’s all these options and there’s also the option of like, I don’t actually know, right? I don’t know if she took it for sure. And so I’m not gonna like go after them and try to make them pay for it or something like that. So I called her up and I said, she said hello. And I said, Hey, I said, um, is this a good time? She said, yes, it’s a great time. And I said, I said, thanks so much for talking to me on the phone. I just didn’t really know how to write this to you. And I got right into it. I said last, like two weeks ago on this day when this person was here, I had a Ringo missing. And she went, oh my god.

(21:04):

And I said, I don’t know that this person took it, it would be a weird thing to take. And I explained the ring and then I said it, it, uh, it’s connected to my phone and I know that it’s not in the house. It didn’t just get lost in the house, it’s not here. And the facts of the situation are that I put the ring on the charger, this person arrived, um, I came back later, the ring was gone. So, uh, so I just wanted to let you know because I just don’t like, they’re supposed to come back to our house this week and I just don’t feel comfortable. And then that’s the moment where I waited, right? Like no jumping in to rescue her and no jumping in to be like, and don’t worry Anna, blah blah blah. Like just, that’s a fact. Pause <laugh> and app.

(22:12):

I approach it the same way that I, um, approach all of my conversations. When Jordan and I talked, we did the episode about how we approach conflict. I really approach it like that where, um, it’s like I take the perspective that we’re working toward the same thing. And this is, I’ll just say briefly that this isn’t gonna work with someone who is abusive or narcissistic, like someone who doesn’t respond in a grounded, healthy way to conflict. Um, I’m not suggesting that like if you’re in some sort of situation, you’re trying to have a difficult conversation with someone who has these traits, like they’re not gonna hear you. So you have to like, that’s just gonna be approached entirely differently. So this is like healthy difficult conversations with people who you think can have some capacity to have the conversation with you. Um, but with someone like that, I take the perspective that we’re on the same side. Like I’m not trying to be combative against her. Uh, Jordan always says this, but I think it comes from Brene Brown, is he often says like, make generous assumptions. And that’s something we try to do a lot in our relationships is make generous assumptions. My generous assumption here is that, uh, she didn’t steal, like maybe she didn’t take it, you know, I don’t know that for sure. And um,

(24:09):

So just being open in my energy, like I’m not trying to fight with you, I’m not trying to cause a conflict. Um, I’m just telling you this thing that has come up, this like new fact that has emerged and I’m sure that you wanna work it out with me as kind of my perspective that I take. So, um, she was like, oh my god, I’m so sorry. And um, we’ve never had this happen before and uh,

(24:53):

Like I just, I can’t imagine that this person would do that, but you never know and I understand that you don’t feel comfortable and like I can bring it up with them and ask and uh, like I understand if you don’t want to continue with our services. And I was like, no, we do <laugh>. I was like, I really like your company. I really liked working with you. It’s just this person in particular. And I said again, like, I don’t know that, uh, they were the ones who took this. Um, but just, I just because I don’t know for sure, I feel hesitant just having them come back to our house. And she was totally understanding. She was like, yeah, that makes sense, I really get it. Um, I’ll, I’ll talk to them and I’ll just see if they might have seen it or what could have happened. And um, I was just super kind and super open and just super not blaming and just saying, this is what occurred and this is what I like, I, I’m holding in my mind what I need is for this person not to come back. And they, to that she totally understood. Um,

(26:23):

At first she said that she would come instead, uh, but they were supposed to come. It was only two days away. And I, I kind of noticed that I thought maybe that was her rescuing and trying to like save the conversation and I was like, and just so you know, like I’m happy to have you come instead, but if you can’t, like I know it’s short notice and I’m happy to also reschedule if that’s better for you. And she was like, yeah, yeah, okay. Okay. So it was great. Like we hung up, she ended up calling me back a few minutes later to ask some more details just so she was more prepared to ask her employee and that was the end of the conversation. And I think that what it does in a conversation like that is everyone becomes closer and more able to trust one another and, and work together because there’s an expectation of honesty. Like we are gonna be honest with each other here regardless of what comes up. Um, I’ll tell you another story, <laugh>.

(27:30):

So another example, I’m gonna do two more examples. Um, the rain is holding up so far, so we’ll see if it lets me <laugh> if it lets me keep going. <laugh> we’ll we’ll make this episode the length that the rain, uh, decides that it’s gonna be, oh no, a person is coming. All right, well they’re coming soon. So when you hear me pause, that’s why <laugh>. Okay, so the other uh, incident that happened recently was we hired, uh, a new assistant for, um, in our house. The old one had left, uh, she goes away for the wintertime and so in the fall we hired somebody new and she’s been really great. Um, hello. Um, she’s been really great. It has, it’s been great actually to have different experience. Like I’ve had a lot of experience hiring new people over this year and working with different people and, and learning and um, so she started working and with assistance, especially in home assistance, there’s always this that like you have to expect or what I have learned is that I have to expect that they’re going to make mistakes simply because they’re doing a lot of household tasks and they’re doing things like going to the grocery store and putting things away and uh, helping around the house.

(29:29):

And people don’t off the bat just know how to read your mind. And so they’re inevitably going to do something that you have to correct them on. And there is a variety of ways you can do this. And I have seen in other people’s homes people will be like overly mean and just like harsh and kind of abrasive. And then I’ve also seen people build resentment by not naming it. And I think the ideal place to be is to find a healthy balance where I, I have to um, correct our assistant all the time. Like I have to say to her like, oh, can you get this orange juice next time and not this one? Or can you actually, this goes over here. And what I usually do, um, is I, and, and this is to be expected, like the assistant expects this is part of their job and uh, the way that I try to approach it is by just saying their name.

(30:42):

I’ll say, say her name was Sylvia. I’d say, Sylvia, I’d be like, Hey Sylvia. She would be like, yeah, and I’d be like, for next time can you do this like this? And like this has to go over here and this thing. And it’s usually very pleasant. But with this particular person, something that she did um, early on was she would hum while she worked, which on the first day it was really cute <laugh>. And I was like, oh, like she’s so joyful, she’s humming while she’s working. Um, and then as the times went on and she would be humming the whole time, I was like, oh no, <laugh> And I, I experienced a couple times of being like, oh no, I’m gonna have to name this. I was like, is it something I can just get over? It feels mean to correct her. I like went through all this stuff.

(31:41):

I was like, it’s such a joyful thing to do. It seems mean to be like, stop doing that but also I’m getting irritated and it’s my house and I don’t wanna be sitting in my house. Well like I don’t wanna dread her coming. And so obviously maybe not obviously to most people, but obviously to me I was like, this is gonna get in the way so I need to tell her. And wow, the ocean is so blue. It’s actually a really pretty, it’s kind of the color that I wanna make our bedroom. Speaking of pink colors, but I think, I don’t know, with our bedroom, I’m really in between going like a really dark teal or like a lighter grayish cha green and I can’t decide cuz I’m gonna combine that with like a blush pink. Okay. Anyway, moving on, that is <laugh> a color side though. Um, and so one day I was like, I said, Hey Sylvia, which is not her name, but um, I said, Hey Sylvia, um, would it be possible for you to not hum while you’re working? And I said, I feel bad cuz I know it’s such a, it’s like a joyful thing to do and you can totally hum when I’m not here. But I just can’t <laugh> like I just, it’s really hard for me to listen to

(33:28):

And again, like open, we’re on the same side. I don’t need to criticize her. I don’t need to be like, the humming is so annoying and stop and I don’t need to be like, you know, there’s just such a range. It’s just, well, it’s honest and kind. It’s that, and, and again, the focus of the conversation being what do I need here? And keeping that like the main focus. And um, so what I needed was just for her to stop humming and she said, oh my gosh, yes. And like, it might be hard to break the habit and so if I do just let me know. Like if you hear me, just tell me to stop and I’ll try my best. And I said, okay, it’s totally fine if I’m not here, please hum all you want <laugh>. And um, we had a little laugh and that was it. And

(34:30):

Again, it’s like, it sounds so simple and maybe for some people it is, but if you haven’t grown up having conversations like this and this hasn’t been modeled to you can feel really challenging. And often what I see people do is they flip to the other side of like, say they’ve always been very people please and have a lot of good girl conditioning and are quite passive. Then when they start saying anything like this or they start setting boundaries, it brings up this like rage of never having been able to say it before and then it gets really intense and it’s like, well I have to set my boundary and I have to tell them that, like, this thing and it’s like, that is gonna, you’ll probably get that mirrored back to you. That kind of energy by the way that the person responds. Not always, but in general. Um, so just a thing to to note, but it can be really, really simple and just really, um, really kind like I think as I get older I start valuing, I’ve started valuing kindness a lot more and not like fake niceness or politeness or being a good girl, but just the

(36:02):

Way that we can often when we, what I have noticed in myself is that as I’ve gotten more comfortable having needs and with what my needs are and as I have been more trusting of the fact that I deserve to have them met and that I will have them met and that people want to meet my needs and they want to help me and they are on my side and the world is not against me, I’ve found that I want to bring things up with people by being firm but gentle. And I think that often when we’re naming something with someone, especially when it’s like, especially when we’re the person who’s done so much more work than someone else, I think it’s good to be aware of how that can land for people and to get better and better at being honest and stating our needs, but also being kind. And I think that’s the same like I was, I said I was gonna talk about, um, a breakup conversation and in my last breakup when I broke up with my ex, it was actually a really kind breakup in like the kindest way that breakups can be. Um, I don’t know <laugh>, I don’t know what he would say about it, but um,

(37:44):

At the time like I, I felt a lot of resentment and

(37:49):

Um, like pain I guess or yeah, I guess resentment and anger after the relationship had ended, like, um, you know, a few weeks after it ended and I started to be able to look at the relationship more clearly and be like, oh, cuz usually when you’re in something, when you’re in some sort of relationship, you often can’t see it as clearly, like you can’t see the dynamic that’s happening until you remove yourself from it and then you’re like, oh, that was what was happening that whole time. And I had no idea. And with my ex um,

(38:25):

At the time I thought we had such a loving relationship and there was a lot of love there, but there was also a lot of criticism and a lot of our relationship was based on us critiquing, critiquing each other and bickering and fighting and um, really not, I guess not really respecting each other. Like I, I lost a lot of respect for him along the way and, but when I broke up with him I didn’t know that. So the resentment was yet to come. And actually when we broke up, uh, the reason for the breakup for me was just that the relationship wasn’t enough. Like I just felt like this is really happy, this is what a lot of people would want on paper and this isn’t enough for me. Like I want someone who does his work, I want someone who can really fully meet me.

(39:20):

Like this is a need that I must have. It’s not just like a, oh that would be nice, it’s like a non-negotiable need for me. And when I realized that, um, I ended the relationship and, but the way that I approached it was by being very honest with him and very kind in how I named things, but just very honest and being willing to sit in the discomfort of the honesty and actually what happened, <laugh>, this sounds like it would’ve been so much messier than it actually was. It wasn’t actually messy at all. Um, I think I’ve told this story elsewhere, but um, what happened in my last relationship was that Jordan had been coaching me, Jordan, who’s my now husband, had been coaching me on my business and I had started to feel like I had a crush on him and my relationship that I had been in, I had almost broken up with this person like a couple times over the last year of the relationship for the same theme.

(40:34):

Like they kept coming up. But when I hired Jordan and I started to have all these conversations with Jordan, I was like, I think I have a crush on Jordan. And I thought about it and I was like, you know, I’m definitely projecting, you know, like he’s, I’ve hired him to coach me. And then I eventually realized that it was because the crush that I had and it, I ended up like meeting some guy in a coffee shop. I think I told, I told this on um, this story on the podcast episode where I like talked about my relationship history I think a few episodes ago or something, but I, so I had a number of things appear to me where I was like, oh, I’m avoiding the fact that this is really a need for me. And so I didn’t even think that I actually like Jordan, I was like, I feel like I have a crush on Jordan but I don’t even think it’s about Jordan.

(41:31):

I think it’s just like Jordan, it happens to embody what I’m missing in my relationship and I think that that can happen a lot. Like I see that happen a lot to people when they’re supposed to break up with someone or that’s really alive for them, that they meet someone who embodies the qualities that they’re missing to kind of show them and it’s usually not about the person, although in my case it kind of ended up being the case. But uh, when I went to my ex, so I didn’t tell Jordan first, I told my ex and I said I sat down and I was like, Hey, I need to talk to you about something. And I said, I feel like I have a crush on Jordan. And I don’t think it’s about Jordan, I think it’s just like he embodies what I’ve been missing in our relationship and I’ve named this to you a lot of times now and I think that this is a thing I need and it’s not something that’s just gonna go away.

(42:30):

I think it’s only gonna get stronger and I just, what I really want is to be with someone who’s really doing their own work, who does work on his sexuality and work on all these different things. And again, like name that silence, just like let the person land. And in this case, um, I can’t remember exactly I um, he ended up getting mad and I think that I left, I think I was like, I was like this really matters to me. Um, he was really mad and I was like, well let’s take a pause and come back to this conversation later. And I think I like left the house for a couple hours or something. I was like, I’m gonna leave. And then we came back together and we talked about it and it was over the span of a few weeks. Like there was a few weeks of being like me being like this is what I need.

(43:31):

And I think what’s important to know for these conversations is that we don’t always have to have the solution known ahead of time. Like in my experience, the solution is typically what we figure out together. And so it’s being able to go into the conversation just being like, this is what’s happening for me, this is what I need. And then seeing how the other person responds because they also are gonna have their own needs. Um, so uh, with my ex it was like a few weeks like we ended up being like, maybe we can work on it, maybe we’ll work on it. And he was like, no, I really do wanna change. Like I really do wanna do all this work. And I was like, I don’t know if you really do like I don’t want you to do it just for me. I want you to like wanna do it yourself. And um, I was like, I don’t really know if that’s who you are. And it’s kind ultimately even in breakups, it’s like the person also deserves to be with someone who can love them for who they actually are and not for their potential,

(44:47):

You know? And so even if it hurts them in the moment, I think it’s ultimately kind cuz it’s ultimately like the goal, sorry I’m walking up a big hill. The goal is ultimately like I want, like I want us both to have love <laugh>. Like that’s, we’re on the same side there I think like we both want us to both have love and now we might disagree about the best way to have that happen, but um, yeah, I just approached it by saying like, this is what I need and um, yeah that was it. It took a few weeks and we we’re gonna try it and then I was like, actually I think it’s kind of too late for me. Like I don’t, I don’t think I want to try actually was kind of the place I ended up where he was like, let’s do like couple sessions together and let’s do all these things. And I was like, I actually don’t think I want to. And that was the honest truth, which wasn’t really nice to hear, but that was the truth for me of like, I had named the need every so often for a while and then I got to the point where I was like, oh this is like really a big need and

(46:25):

I don’t, like I was only 26 or something. I was like, I don’t wanna be 26 and going to like couples therapy, like I wanna go live my life. And um, yeah. But I was really proud of how the breakup went because as breakups could go, I felt like it was really loving and a friend ended up like letting me stay at her place for two weeks and I went and I stayed there and then when I came back I think he had to stay there for like a night or two more before he moved out cuz he had to figure out where he was gonna go and stuff. And

(47:12):

Um, I was like, you know, I don’t really wanna share a bed anymore. And we had an air mattress so he slept on that and then it was like, okay. And it was really sad. It was like heartbreaking for me. He had been my best friend for like eight years and so it was hard but ultimately, I don’t know how his life is going now, but I imagine that um, he’s probably happy that we separated. I hope that he is. And um, then I realized that actually I think I do have a crush on Jordan and that was its own story that I told in that, that other episode. But um, yeah, so I think like I also, I, I think when approaching a conversation like this, I think the main key is to keep what you need in mind, be honest and be kind and keep your energy open and if there is a lot of charge around it for you, see if you can remove that ahead of time. Like if it’s either by letting some time go by or if you can’t let time go by like journaling, letting it out, just like moving the emotion so that it doesn’t come out at the person that you’re trying to have the conversation with.

(48:46):

Um, yeah. Yeah. And like I’ll say I had this experience with someone recently and it’s like, I think an important thing too is name the thing up front. Like if you have something that you need to share that feels like it’s gonna be a difficult thing for you to share, like in the conversation with this woman, I wasn’t like, Hey, how are you and let me chat to you for a little while about like this other thing and or if you’re like telling a friend something difficult or a partner, like you’re not gonna have like a long heart to heart conversation and then be like, oh by the way, at the end this thing that’s like really difficult for me to say and is probably gonna make you like, feel something or have to consider things and let me just like throw it in at the end that’s really sloppy.

(49:46):

Instead name the thing up front, like be like, and I think that it’s best if we can preface like when we’re gonna have a difficult conversation with somebody to be able to preface it to say like, Hey, I have something to discuss with you, is now a good time? This is a really good thing to do with men. Or like, when would be a good time because, uh, the way men’s brains work, I think especially, but this is good for anyone. But, um, I see this a lot in the way that women are with men is like, sometimes they’ll just like start having a hard conversation and it can be challenging for people to just shift gears. And I find for men especially to just like be like, oh I was doing this thing, now we’re like having this deep hard conversation and I wasn’t prepared at all. Like, I think that’s a lot better to just be like, Hey, I wanna talk to you about something, is now a good time? Or Hey, I wanna talk to you about something. When would be a good time? Like can we talk about this now? Or like I said with the woman, um,

(51:10):

Like, hey, uh, can I call like when’s a good time for me to call you? I need to talk to you. Just giving someone a heads up so they’re like a bit more prepared. It also helps not to waste anybody’s time, it’s just like we’re getting right to the point. Obviously personal professional, there’s like different boundaries to have in different places. Um, but in general it’s a good idea to name the thing. Um, and same thing with our assistant. Like I didn’t, I didn’t think it was a big enough deal to be like, can I talk to you for a moment? Like, sit down. But I still like got her attention by saying her name. It’s like, Hey Sylvia, like I’m gonna ask you something clearly, like get their attention. I wouldn’t just be like, can you not hum <laugh>? Like that’s not, I mean, I don’t know, you might talk to your friends that way or something, but like, yeah, I hope it’s clear. I think there’s just, there’s different ways to navigate different situations. Um, oh my god, a dog and a raincoat. It was so cute. I walk over here, the rain’s held up. I had a feeling that it would, even though my phone said it would not,

(52:54):

I really, I have this thing with the weather and I really want to, I want to do some more work with weather like witchy work cuz I feel that I just have a special relationship with it. Hi puppy, please don’t jump by me.

Demetra (53:15):

Oh

Demetra (53:15):

My God, it’s so adorable. We good dog. I’m definitely gonna get him a rain coat. <laugh>. I guess they like really don’t need it, right? But it’s just so cute. Yeah. And then I think it’s also like knowing when the person, like being able to recognize hello another puppy,

Demetra (53:42):

Hi.

Demetra (53:44):

Um, being able to recognize when the person is not gonna be able to hear you and there will be some people you can, like, you’ll have to have a different extent of conversations with different people. Like there are different people in my life that I can have a deeper honest conversation with, whereas with some people I might just be like, say this is my need, or like, this is a boundary with other people. I might like talk more about my feelings and like, this thing when you do this, it makes me feel this way. And what, and like some people in my life can’t hear that, you know? And so there’s just gonna be like all boundaries that it’s, it’s very fluid. But I hope that this was helpful. It’s been really freeing for me. It’s felt just very freeing to be like any situation that comes up with anyone in my life, I can trust myself to handle it and to handle it in a way that feels good to me. And, um, yeah, I think most of us don’t grow up with, with examples of that model to us. So

(55:11):

Anyway, that’s all for now. Um, if you haven’t seen that, Jordan released his, he opened up his, uh, membership, which is called the Circle. It’s a community online where he does weekly coaching calls and we’ve been doing a bunch of, um, what we scheduled a workshop I’m gonna do next month about healing relationships with the masculine. And I’m gonna be holding up on myself in there and, um, we’re gonna be doing a lot of other calls and extra things in there together and separately and we’re just like really excited to fill this community with just lots and lots of goodness. So it also comes with this program Evolution of Love. It’s the circle is about all things relationships, which really I think will end up encompassing all of life. So, um, the link for that, I’ll put in the show notes. It’s just Jordan Gray consulting.com/evolution of love. And that’s all for now. I hope you’re having a good day and I’ll talk to you soon.